Adding spinners to X-Arcade Tankstick

[Draco1962]

I have an X-Arcade Tankstick for a number of years. Overall I am very satisfied with it but I would like to add 1 or 2 spinners. 

I've read several posts on various blogs and forums, but thought I'd ask if anyone else has done so here and, if so, their recommendations.

I am currently leaning towards the TurboTwist2 as this seems to be the popular choice for this type of mod.

[RIP-Felix]

I'm interested in this too, though I haven't looked into it for my Tanksticks. I'll be eager to hear your results. It would be nice to play Tempest the right way. Or 720. Atari 2600 paddle games are another reason I'd like to do it. Just another project I've put off for way too long.

[ClassicGMR]

Hopefully you don't mind a link to another forum but a user on AtariAge did a great job with his tankstick and the spinner mod a few years ago. I, sadly, STILL haven't gotten around to it yet.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/198308-x-arcade-mod-with-spinners/

[Draco1962]

2 hours ago, ClassicGMR said:

Hopefully you don't mind a link to another forum but a user on AtariAge did a great job with his tankstick and the spinner mod a few years ago. I, sadly, STILL haven't gotten around to it yet.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/198308-x-arcade-mod-with-spinners/

I did see that one and a few others. Some replacing buttons, others drilling new holes. I will need to see some more bottom views to come to a decision. I think if I sacrifice a button I would prefer to use the right-most one on the bottom row so as to create the least amount of obstruction to the sticks and buttons on the top and middle rows.  Based upon the images, this may not be possible if I order the optional rotational energy storage cylinder due to the depth. Will definitely need to source more actual measurements for the spinners including shaft depths to determine the best placement.

  

[Draco1962]

Other links:

https://krysss.blogspot.com/2013/06/adding-spinner-to-x-arcade-tankstick.html

This one has only one in the center below the trackball. Looks like there is more room and a little forward for two spinners might justclear the problem he had with grinding out the Tankstick base  to make room for the cylinder. 

 

[Draco1962]

The TokenTop Premium Spinner Knob removes the need for the Energy Storage Cylinder... so opens up some flexibility, but at additional cost per knob. 

[tthurman]

I've got the Turbo-Twist 2 with the energy cylinder and the TokenTop premium spinner and can vouch that it is an excellent product.  

<edit> The TokenTop knob has felt backing on it that you can use to increase the resistance of the knob against the controller base to let you limit the spin by adjusting the knob position based on the height it's mounted on the spinner shaft.

FWIW, I can't believe that dude put the spinner below his trackball like that! 

 

You may want to have a look at the GSR spinner, these guys have been putting out some pretty affordable products that seem to get high marks overall.

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Arcade1Up/comments/b0u1g6/review_glens_retro_show_replacement_spinner/

[Draco1962]

I think either side of the mouse like I am considering would be best. This will allow for the occasional use of a detachable steering wheel and no clearance issues because of proximity to a mouse or joysticks.

How does the TT2 turn without the Token Top only?

[tthurman]

It turns really nice, but the standard knob is a bit to small, but I also never tried without the cylinder attached.  
 

I don’t think the Token top knob, or any of the premiums for that matter, would fully replace the energy cylinder feel.  The premium spinner knob has actually been a recent addition and I couldn’t believe the difference.

It wasn’t that it was an amazingly better experience from a gameplay standpoint, but more like the extra heft felt like the real arcade experience!

It’s a worthy upgrade that you’ll notice right away.

[Draco1962]

Did you get one or two? Will need to figure out the whole master-slave configuration before ordering. I want to have one on each player's side.

[tthurman]

Just one.

Long ago I really stayed the course of having two player setups for everything, but for me this was a unnecessarily expensive habit for me to continue.  Gaming alone is something I've learned to accept and for me there no longer any reason to pursue anything but from the single player aspect.   For a few games it has paid off with the double up on Joysticks, Crazy Climber, etc...

[Draco1962]

I like the idea of the duality since I have, other than the single trackball, dual sticks and rows of buttons. The thought of being able to play Warlords with Alicia is inviting. 

[Draco1962]

I have finally decided after quite a few favorable reviews to spring for one ThunderStick GRS USB Button Hole Spinner for $49.99 USD on Amazon. Not sure when I will get around to installing it as my office/game room is a bloody disaster ATM, but likely soon.

As for placement, I may sacrifice the bottom-most - right-most button of the Player 2 side or just add new hole to the right of them. Being right-handed it seems to make sense.

The kit comes with two buttons that you can chain to the spinner to use as a horiztonal-only mouse for right-click and left-click functions. Likely I will just set them aside as I haven't any need for using it as a mouse.

More to come...

[tthurman]

Cool, looking forward to your review.

[ClassicGMR]

I bought one of these maybe a year ago(maybe even 2 years ago?) but I still haven't gotten around to installing it. I also bought the Atari Dual Fightstick they sold as well around that time. I don't think I have even tested that yet either! 🤣

[Draco1962]

I received the spinner today and, while I have yet to install it, I did assemble the knob to the spinner body and, well, spun it.

It seemed to spin fairly well, but the proof will be in the integration and after making in-game adjustments for sensitivity.

As noted in other reviews, I found the USB cable supplied to be too short so waiting for a 6' USB extension cable and purchasing a 1 1/8th" Forstner bit for when I am ready to install it.

[Draco1962]

While waiting for my USB extension to arrive, I came across this video about how to calculate and set the spinner sensitivity in MAME for various games:

Also the link referenced in the video:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Spinner_Turn_Count

 

[Draco1962]

UPDATE: I performed a pre-install connectivity test.

From a user review on Amazon I was able to determine the GRS Spinner turn count is 1024. Using Tempest to test, which has a turn count of 72 I used the following formula to determine the Analog Controls speed:

72 x 100 = 7200

7200 ÷ 1024 = 7.03 (or rounded to 7)

I adjusted the setting in MAME and voila, very close to what I recall.

More to report once I decide whether or not I am going to butcher my Tankstick or sacrifice an existing button. 

P S  I tested without using the R L mouse buttons enclosed.

[Draco1962]

SUCCESS! I used a 1-1/8" spade bit instead and drilled a pilot hole through the vinyl and mdf below to avoid traveling of the bit.

I decided to center off of 2 of the left- most top 3 buttons on the Player 1 side. This gives me the best clearance of the buttons and enough room should I decide to add a snap on steering wheel in the future.

I did not get many "build" pics of any worth.

I can attest to the ease of the mod and the build of the spinner. While it may not spin for days like many of the much costlier weighted spinners, and does have at least one con (short USB cable), it hit a home run in my book!

[Draco1962]

I created a table based upon the one posted in the Wiki noted above that includes the calculations for MAME Dial Sensitivity using the GRS TS-BSP-02 spinner turn count that I found. The MAME Dial Sensitivity values are rounded up/down to the nearest whole number.

Calculation is Counts Per Revolution x 100 then / Device Counts Per Turn = Mame Dial Sensitivity. A screen capture of the spreadsheet with pertinent details (columns) showing only. Red text are numbers obtained from the details in the video previously shared. 

 

• Since this TS-BSP-02 has a setup utilitythat can adjust the "mouse" resolution to three settings - 360, 720, and 1440 CPI you have the potential to throw off the settings entirely from the calcs. I have yet to play with the settings to see if one is optimal over another so would suggest starting with 360 (default) CPI setting when using these calculations 

 

• Keep in mind that reported turn count is from an Amazon review and may not be accurate. So far I will say very close, but found Tempest to be a little sluggish from what I recalled so upped it a few points on the sensitivity.

 

• Other factors may affect turning, such as knob weight and if you are verifying the number of counts per revolution, if your knob is not the same diameter as the original arcade game, it may be off.

I have attached the Excel spreadsheet as a reference if anyone makes this purchase and is in need of the reference. I will update as I find additional MAME Dial Sensitivity settings.

Sprinner_Turn_Count_Calc_Table_TS-BSP-02.xlsx

[ClassicGMR]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:14 PM, Draco1962 said:

SUCCESS!

Excellent! I will do this some day damn it... 🤣

[Draco1962]

Even more info here where someone else did a similar conversion for a different device noting "settings are using the resolution of 1200 utilized by both GroovyGameGear’s TurboTwist 2 and Ultimarc’s Spintrak."

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=167242.0

Spinner Sensitivity Settings.pdf

[Draco1962]

I  have greatly expanded the approximate MAME Dial settings and updated the spreadsheet accordingly here:

I converted the information found in the post just before this in the PDF and reversed the calculations for the items that did not have a turn count to add a turn count in my doc and the calculation based upon a divisor of 1024 instead of 1200 for the GroovyGameGear’s TurboTwist 2 and Ultimarc’s Spintrak spinners.

Again, your mileage may vary but at least this helps get to the general vicinity of a truer setting than the oft-found defaults.

[Draco1962]

Since I had the majority of the data for the TurboTwist2 and Spintrak 1200 turn count spinners, I revamped the file to just the base hardware counts per revolution and colums for the 1024 and 1200 turn count spinners and their resulting MAME Dial Sensitivity settings.

I have created an entry within the GameEx > FAQs, Guides, & Other Useful Information subforum accordingly.