[RESOLVED] PinballX lag following improvement of videos and wheels

[Denys06]

Hello, I just updated my PinballX in the following way:

• Improved all Playfield Videos by upgrading them to 60fps.
• Implemented Animated Wheels in APNG format.

The result is that now PinballX lags. When I switch from one table to another, it's not very quick, but the worst part is when I navigate through all the tables, it becomes really slow and everything is delayed.
I want to clarify that the rest of my Pincab works perfectly in 4K, and all the tables run without any problems under Visual Pinball.

Could you please provide a solution to help me overcome this slowdown issue in displaying tables in PinballX ?

Thank in advance

PinballX.ini log.txt

[Draco1962]

When reporting an issue, please attach copies of your pinballx.ini and log.txt files for review.

[Denys06]

7 minutes ago, Draco1962 said:

When reporting an issue, please attach copies of your pinballx.ini and log.txt files for review.

Thank you for your continuous presence on the forum and your prompt response.
I have just added the files to my message.

I don't think my problem is unique but rather a general issue of slowness related to PinballX, which poorly manages 4K videos of playfields and APNG images, isn't that right?

[Mike_da_Spike]

26 minutes ago, Denys06 said:

don't think my problem is unique but rather a general issue of slowness related to PinballX, which poorly manages 4K videos of playfields and APNG images, isn't that right?

Yes, you are unique.  I use 4k and 60fps for years now. I also use apngs for wheel images. Pressing left or right flipper, scrolls very fast through my lists (1200+ tables for vpx)

How did you record your videos? What bitrate, length and size are your playfield videos ? 

Did you install the lav codecs? 

Not sure if your system configuration could cause the issue. When starting my cab, I switched quickly to a 2070 as my 1060 could not keep up VPX  with 4k on 60 fps. I switched 2 years ago to a 3080 and that even for VR not the best configuration

Check taskmanager as well to check cpu/mem/gpu performance 

[Denys06]

I just found the source of the problem! I completely disabled all my Wheels by deleting the folder, and now navigation is very fast, even with the 4K videos.

So, the problem comes from the animated wheels (or even the non-animated ones).

Do you know how to overcome my problem, please?

 

 

Well, your answer already reassures me because I was trying to install Pinup and perhaps I will be able to stay on PinballX...
For your questions, here are the answers:

 Vidéos size (captured with Nvidia and PinbalX Database Manager) : 

LAV codecs : I don't know if they were installed but I just did it. This did not cause any change. However, I didn't do any configuration and left everything by default.

Graphics card : I actually have an "NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER", but I can play very well in 4K on all pinball machines without slowing down. It would really bother me to have to change my card just to make PinballX work quickly...

Task Manager : my processor (Ryzen 5 3400G) is at 100% when I run PinballX. Could this be the reason for all this ?

• Given this information, do you see anything that may be causing PinballX to slow down?
• Is it possible to make the graphics card work rather than the processor when PinballX is running?
• Is it possible to improve the speed of PinballX by making different system settings?

Edited April 3 by Denys06
wheels problem

[scutters]

2 hours ago, Denys06 said:

So, the problem comes from the animated wheels (or even the non-animated ones).

Apngs are more resource intensive than static wheel images. Non animated wheel images shouldn't cause any problem though (i assume you used those before without issue?). 

Are you using an SSD to store the PinballX media with exceptions set in Defender / anti-virus software for PinballX?

It may well be that the apngs just aren't optimised though, there are some pretty big ones about - pingo or pinga may be able to help with that (copy the wheel images somewhere so you have a backup and then try and compress them and see if that helps, copy back from the backup if you want to rerun the compression with different settings).

[Denys06]

Following the general conclusion that I need to reduce the quality of all my media to properly use PinballX, I am currently exploring other Frontend solutions to achieve a beautiful display result (4k 60fps video + APNG) on my setup. Thank you all for your messages that helped me find the cause of this problem and allowed me to reflect.

[Mike_da_Spike]

2 hours ago, Denys06 said:

I am currently exploring other Frontend solutions to achieve a beautiful display result (4k 60fps video + APNG) on my setup.

😳

My guess is that Popper will give you the same experience (or even worse as they use more videos to show with VLC player). This will not be a lag of ye front-end(s), but more a limitation of your system.

 

[Denys06]

I will indeed test, as I changed my graphics card last night and it didn't change the lag in PinballX.
My hard drive is an SSD, and my RAM is not saturated. My processor may be a bit weak, but I can't change that... I still overclocked it last night to overcome all these problems, but it didn't change anything; the system still lags as much with active Wheels (APNG causes a lot of slowdown), and the overclocking had no improvement.

I've used all the options provided to me in this ticket, and the one that will inevitably work, which involves reducing the quality of my media, does not suit me
My tables run perfectly in 4K with full graphic options in Visual Pinball. The only solution I have now is to change the frontend because it seems there is an optimization problem of resources in PinballX with my configuration, which I regret

I will keep you informed when I have found the solution for my PC, whether on the hardware or software side, perhaps it will help other people

[scutters]

2 hours ago, Mike_da_Spike said:

My guess is that Popper will give you the same experience (or even worse as they use more videos to show with VLC player). This will not be a lag of ye front-end(s), but more a limitation of your system.

My understanding is that popper/vlc uses mainly CPU for video rendering too. But there may be a difference for apngs, as i think only the selected games wheel is animated (PinballX animates all, so could be up to 5 at a time). Don't really know though.

2 hours ago, Denys06 said:

I've used all the options provided to me in this ticket, and the one that will inevitably work, which involves reducing the quality of my media, does not suit me
My tables run perfectly in 4K with full graphic options in Visual Pinball. The only solution I have now is to change the frontend because it seems there is an optimization problem of resources in PinballX with my configuration, which I regret

Just my personal opinion, playfield 4k videos at 30fps rather than 60fps isn't really a reduction in quality if the video is just the tables attract mode (so just lights changing) but may be noticeable if you like gameplay videos. Format of the video, audio and length could make a large difference too. For the wheels using compression should be fine (just like a lot of tables use compressed webp images for the playfield in vpx). You may struggle to get the highest quality experience on mid range hardware without some compromises.

But like i say, just my opinion... i've never liked having having unnecessarily bloaty files on my system 

[Draco1962]

I think the advice given to reduce the FPS is probably sound.

Another thing to consider is your combination of CPU, motherboard, and GPU. If your GPU bandwidth exceeds the motherboard's and/or CPU's creating a bottleneck. As a result, you may run into the same thing using another frontend.

That @Mike_da_Spike is running things just fine as he noted with 4k videos and .apng wheels does not seem to implicate PinballX as the issue.

[Mike_da_Spike]

35 minutes ago, Draco1962 said:

That @Mike_da_Spike is running things just fine as he noted with 4k videos and .apng wheels does not seem to implicate PinballX as the issue.

I must make side note on this. Not all my wheel images are apng's

And as @scutterssays, asay's can be large and system performance consuming. I known for example that Gilligans Usland has a 35Mb of apng. If you have a lot of these apng's it can be a heavy performance for your system.

[Draco1962]

Another thing to consider, are ALL videos 60FPS 4k for the playfield and backglass? Or just the playfield?

I've heard of some having issues with Popper and other FEs where all were loaded to the 9s and stuttering occuring until they backed down on the UHD videos on the backglass.

Personally, I am more of a scutters and prefer to keep the overhead as small as possible. 

[Mike_da_Spike]

7 hours ago, Draco1962 said:

Personally, I am more of a scutters and prefer to keep the overhead as small as possible. 

I don't usually say this in public, but I agree with @scutters on this one. Just keep it between us, okay? 😜

[Tom Speirs]

Not running full screen windowed can reduce lag a little on videos, but yeah, you need a hefty CPU for all apng. Unlike videos they are not hardware accelerated and also single core based.

 

[Denys06]

Okay, I've followed all your advice and am in the process of recapturing all videos in 30FPS. For the wheels, I will remove all APNGs and compress the remaining PNGs.

It seemed very strange to me that I had to do all this while the table runs perfectly in 4K because, for me, playing a video should have required less resource than generating it in real-time, but you are right, on one side it's the CPU that works and on the other, it's the GPU, too bad for me

I tested with Pinup, and the result was the same, so I'm sticking with PinballX, which keeps your excellent PinballX Database Manager.

Thank you for your advice.