Large FPS drop since VPX x64 update

[MulletLife]

To preface, I don't think this is a PBX issue, I believe I have removed that as a variable. But if anyone is able to offer any help or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. If there are any specific logs, version #s, etc. needed just let me know. 

I have a video linked to demonstrate the issue:
https://mega.nz/file/tvYhhRIY#c7UbsmGZA-_K7__eMq_Mawcd-iEzx0pc7sFyRKGhhsY

I believe the main culprit is the external DMD (possible a dmddevice.dll issue).  Basically if I close that, all the issues go away, I'm locked in at 120fps but who wants to play without a dmd?

Scutters suggested to change: The true to false, that didn't seem to work. 
 

[pinup]

; if enabled, send frames to PinUP.
enabled = true

Another user suggested not using altcolor, that didn't work. 
I've replaced the dmddevice64.dll with an older version (12mb vs 18mb), that didn't work. 

I'm on VPX 10.7.4 64 bit. I may try to go back to 10.7.2 or 10.7.3 and see if that makes a difference but I'm not hopeful on that one. 

Again, if anyone has any thoughts on what to try next, I'm all ears. 
Thanks very much in advance. 
 

[Mike_da_Spike]

I dont have a solution, but instead of goin back, yiu can download the 10.7.4 x86 zip file. If yiu extract this to a differrent folder completely,  and launch vpinball.exe, you actuallo load the complete 32 bit version (with vpinmame etc from your original folder)

And to my opinion, if you have drops in fps by using 64 bit, just use 32 bit

[scutters]

Sorry, no more ideas from me either at this time.. just requesting more info.

For some reason one or more of your cpu cores is probably getting maxed out now (and pinaffinity makes the issue worse by limiting the cores available to VPX to use), this can be confirmed in task manager, performance tab, CPU option.

Can you attach your pinballx.ini & log.txt files, along with the dmddevice.ini file

Please also confirm if both 32bit & 64bit visual pinball exes are affected (at the end end of the video i think you say both are), and versions of VPX, Vpinmame and dmddevice/freezy (or is it lucky's version?), i guess all were updated at the same time with versions suggested here - https://github.com/vpinball/b2s-backglass/wiki/64bit-VPX-Pincab-Setup-Guide

[MulletLife]

52 minutes ago, Mike_da_Spike said:

I dont have a solution, but instead of goin back, yiu can download the 10.7.4 x86 zip file. If yiu extract this to a differrent folder completely,  and launch vpinball.exe, you actuallo load the complete 32 bit version (with vpinmame etc from your original folder)

And to my opinion, if you have drops in fps by using 64 bit, just use 32 bit

I do have my whole 32bit system backed up. I was just trying to be on the leading edge of the updates. I'm likely going to be going back to a full 32bit setup if the issue isn't resolved somewhat soon. I just finished making it 'perfect' so the next logical move was to break it

[MulletLife]

37 minutes ago, scutters said:

Sorry, no more ideas from me either at this time.. just requesting more info.

For some reason one or more of your cpu cores is probably getting maxed out now (and pinaffinity makes the issue worse by limiting the cores available to VPX to use), this can be confirmed in task manager, performance tab, CPU option.

Can you attach your pinballx.ini & log.txt files, along with the dmddevice.ini file

Please also confirm if both 32bit & 64bit visual pinball exes are affected (at the end end of the video i think you say both are), and versions of VPX, Vpinmame and dmddevice/freezy (or is it lucky's version?), i guess all were updated at the same time with versions suggested here - https://github.com/vpinball/b2s-backglass/wiki/64bit-VPX-Pincab-Setup-Guide

Right, in terms of versions of dlls etc, I followed that tutorial to the letter. 

B2SBackglassServer-2.0.0-Release-win-x86
dmdext-v2.0.0-x64
dmdext-v2.0.0-x86
DOF-x64-2021-04-16
PinUPSystem_x64_drivers_v1_beta
VPinballX-10.7.4-400-1965b7b-Release-win-x64
VPinballX-10.7.4-400-1965b7b-Release-win-x86
VPinMAME-sc-3.6-369-102e419-win-x64
VPinMAME-sc-3.6-369-102e419-win-x86

I can attach the files next time I'm on the VPin. 

FB doesn't seem to be much help other than to start fights over x64 vs x32.  I just like to know what causes an issue and how to fix it. The more people that know how things work means the more people that can help when people have issues. But I'm almost at the point of pulling the shoot on this issue and going back to my old setup. 

[scutters]

Damn, i'm already out of date.

I'm on VPX 10.7.3.395, the rest of my versions match yours and i'm not seeing an FPS drop (32 or 64bit) - but i do have slightly higher spec hardware.

Fully understand if you want to restore from backup and get back to playing, but try and post those files first (and confirm if it affects 32 and 64 bit VPX versions). Maybe there'll be a clue somewhere.  Fwiw, i'm sticking to 32bit VPX as my default anyway (see https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=51054&page=2#entry516690)

[MulletLife]

17 hours ago, scutters said:

Damn, i'm already out of date.

I'm on VPX 10.7.3.395, the rest of my versions match yours and i'm not seeing an FPS drop (32 or 64bit) - but i do have slightly higher spec hardware.

Fully understand if you want to restore from backup and get back to playing, but try and post those files first (and confirm if it affects 32 and 64 bit VPX versions). Maybe there'll be a clue somewhere.  Fwiw, i'm sticking to 32bit VPX as my default anyway (see https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=51054&page=2#entry516690)

Just so I don't miss anything and you need to ask again. Do you mind writing out the exact name of every log/ini you would like me to post? I can also try downgrading my vpx and see if that helps. There's also the option of going up to 10.8 to test as well. 

Thanks

[Draco1962]

pinballx.ini & log.txt files, along with the dmddevice.ini file

[MulletLife]

2 hours ago, Draco1962 said:

pinballx.ini & log.txt files, along with the dmddevice.ini file

Sounds good, will do.  (I thought log.txt was maybe a wildcard for ANY log file)

[MulletLife]

I didn't realize the log purges each game. The first time I tried was with AFM x64 and had the FPS issue. This log shows I changed PBX to run AFM in x32, still with FPS issue. 

That would lead me to believe its not the actual VPX install, its something else.... It (seems) to be a dmd issue but can't quite put my finger on the issue. It seems odd that the CPU is at 50% (though I don't know what it was before) and that freeing up the dmd resources changes it from 80fps to 120fps instantly. 

Hope the logs help. 

DmdDevice.ini log.txt PinballX.ini

[Tom Speirs]

Hi,

What DMD are you using? There is currently an issue in PBX where it is not shutting down the DMD. I think its fixed for the next release.

[Mike_da_Spike]

6 minutes ago, Tom Speirs said:

Hi,

What DMD are you using? There is currently an issue in PBX where it is not shutting down the DMD. I think its fixed for the next release.

On the video it looks like a lcd screen, not a real one

[scutters]

What Backglass and Topper (your DMD) media do you use in PinballX, vidoes or images? Might be worth setting them to 'hide' for one game to see if not using that media during games helps at all.

My understanding of pup packs is that they use mainly CPU, so also check FPS on a table that does not have a pup pack (not sure if your AFM does). I know you tried setting pinup to false in dmddevice.ini before but that's just turning off pup rom triggers, so try a table with no pup pack at all.

Not sure why you'd be seeing an issue in both 32 & 64bit after the updates, did you update windows at the same time (did defender turn itself back on, or drivers get updated?).  Can't see anything much in the config ini files (and they're probably as you had them before the updates), but what is WinActivate.exe you use on table launches in PinballX?

[MulletLife]

11 hours ago, Tom Speirs said:

Hi,

What DMD are you using? There is currently an issue in PBX where it is not shutting down the DMD. I think its fixed for the next release.

Its just an LCD monitor.  I do notice that the backglass and "topper" (ie my dmd overlay) is more delayed in shutting down. Especially if playing direct from VPX. VPX closes and topper/backglass hang for a few seconds.  I can't recall now if that was since x64 or if that was when I upgraded from 5.47 to 5.80...

 

[MulletLife]

5 hours ago, scutters said:

What Backglass and Topper (your DMD) media do you use in PinballX, vidoes or images? Might be worth setting them to 'hide' for one game to see if not using that media during games helps at all.

My understanding of pup packs is that they use mainly CPU, so also check FPS on a table that does not have a pup pack (not sure if your AFM does). I know you tried setting pinup to false in dmddevice.ini before but that's just turning off pup rom triggers, so try a table with no pup pack at all.

Not sure why you'd be seeing an issue in both 32 & 64bit after the updates, did you update windows at the same time (did defender turn itself back on, or drivers get updated?).  Can't see anything much in the config ini files (and they're probably as you had them before the updates), but what is WinActivate.exe you use on table launches in PinballX?

Lots to unpack there. My PC did do an update, not sure what update it did but last time I tried to do a rollout it bricked my PC and had to reinstall windows. But I guess that could be a variable the would be difficult to test. I can look to see what got updated though and report back. 

I am using MP4 and I did also install VLC (actually installed it vs it just existing in the pup folder). I did grab a link from a pinball source as I know you're supposed to use a specific one. That might be a variable. 

I can close PBX videos but I would assume that would be fairly similar to just running straight from VPX. I think I did that in the video but I would need to double check. It would certainly free up some resources, I just didn't think I was right on the edge of 120fps or 80fps because of an extra 10% of CPU usage. 

I can try with non-pups. I guess that would help narrow things down. I think I did and it was the same issue but I can certainly try again. 

No idea what WinActivate.exe is.  I've been piggy backing and updating for 5 years, it may have been something that was there originally and just doesn't get used anymore.... no idea on that one.

[scutters]

Unfortunately, as a lot of things have been updated it could be just as many things causing the fps issue, or it could simply be that you were running on the edge before and one small change has had a larger impact.

What i'd do in order is this (testing after each step for impact on FPS with the same table [one that uses a pup pack] and using only 32 or 64bit vpx and always launching from PinballX), all these steps are easily 'reversible';

1. As you don't remember what winactivate does, disable that as a launch before process for visual pinball. Very unlikley that's the issue but it's just as unlikely to actually be needed (if it does cause an issue you can just reenable it)
2. Check defender / AV exclusions are applied to all pinball related folders. 
3. In PinballX select to hide the topper and backglass for that table launch (easy to set back later)
4. Disable the pup pack (just rename the pup pack folder in pup videos so it isn't used), if the pup pack isn't running then VLC won't be used.
5. You installed VPX 10.7.4.400 which includes inbuilt ball shadows (possibly using more CPU). Try an older version of Visual Pinball, 10.7 or 10.6, no need to reinstall.. just use a renamed .exe file to test the impact. If the FPS is better then try VPX 10.7.3.395 from github (last before the ball shadow code).
6. Try raising the CPU process priority for visual pinball. While the game is running in task manager go to the Details tab, right click on the vpinballx.exe process select Set Priority and set to High (this will only affect the running instance of VPX, it will be set back to normal when you run it again when changed this way)

Others would probably troubleshoot differently, but like i say it's what i'd do..  Hopefully one or more of those will help and point to something.