Making new server- needing advice from the pros

[stigzler]

Thought I'd come to my home team for this one. Posted across 3 different Home Server forums. It's like a ghost-town - they're a funny bunch...

My EX495 is dead. New server needed. What a PITA. 

Trying to recycle as much as I can and seeking to reuse:

WHS2011; 3x2TB WD Greens (still with my data on!); SatableBit Drivepool and ESET license. 

So I'm looking at this:

http://www.dabs.com/products/dell-poweredge-t20-intel-xeon-e3-1225v3-3-2-ghz-4gb-1tb-no-os-t20-3708-BYXG.html?refs=4294943184&src=3

You get a £110 cash back on it once bought. How does this look? Anyone know if it'll run WHS 2011 - seen a few incidental posts saying they're running WHS2011, but no specific discussion. 

I'm also thinking about having an SSD as the system/apps drive, but lots of uncertainty about this:

a) what size should I get? I'll also be running Filezilla and BitTorrent Sync

b ) Are there any different setup considerations with SSDs or do you just plug and go like you do normal sata?

Know a few of you guys are hardware men - any advice?

[tthurman]

Quote

b ) Are there any different setup considerations with SSDs or do you just plug and go like you do normal sata?

Be certain to disable automatic defraging.

Is there a particular reason you want a server? ECC memory?

That proc is already EOL, although I'm certain it's still quite powerful.  In the past I was tempted to purchase some of Dell's entry level servers and mod them into workstations, but never did.  I'm not impressed with the current build quality of Dell's we've been getting stuck with at work FWIW.

I if data integrity is number 1 priority, why not build a powerhouse workstation, and map to a network drive to have your data separate from the OS?  You could further this by using a USB 3 external drive, and something simple like a XCOPY batch file to backup your important data off the raid.  This will obviously cost more, but you don't have to start with a huge NAS, and you could even consider building your own NAS with opensource solutions.  Given what you've just experienced, I would at least consider shying away from another server solution, which can take it all away so suddenly.

[stigzler]

Whoa - well that just expanded the task!

I did a last ditch diagnostic and found this out about my system:

That kinda means my memory's buggered, right? I have no idea how to interpret memtest!

If it is, I might just try replacing the memory before splashing out on another setup. 

 

[tthurman]

Looks like you may escape a whole lot of trouble and aggravation, not to mention lost data, and money.  Too bad you don't live closer, I've got some DDR2 you could try before buying.  (Based on my E8500 running with DDR2)

Try re-seating it, and then one module at a if that don't get it.

 

[stigzler]

So - it's dead?

It's quite a hard bit of memory to find. Single slot 4G DDR2 DIMM (240 PIN) 800Mhz PC2 6400 CL5. 

Already re-seated it prior to this. Only other thing I'm wondering is whether it's the motherboard - if that was dicky that'd throw memory errors potentially?

 

[stigzler]

I owe you another pint, tthurman! I fitted a 4G module into my HP ex495 a few years ago. Replaced this with the stock 2G module - no memtest errors + WHS2011 installed first time!

Dammit - what a frustrating week! Dunno how you guys stay sane in IT. Now I've just got to source some very specific and likely obsolete obscure 4G memory!

[tthurman]

If seller ships here, I can't see him not shipping to you.

Looks like two of these are available.

A fellow in this thread claims it worked for him.

CAS 6 is a tiny bit slower, but it's got that ever so important 1.8 volt requirement.  

 

This one is also mentioned, and gets you back to CAS5.

[hansolo77]

Wow lucky break you found that it was memory.  What made you think to even check that?

If you're ever in the mood to upgrade, go BIG like I did. 

Custom install of Windows Server 2012 Essentials (basically the next upgrade to WHS2011)
Norco RPC-4224 Case (link)
Corsair AX760i PSU (link)
ASRock Rack E3C224-4L (link) - I went with this because of it's ECC RAM, Xeon Processor, and the PCI slots I needed for TV Tuners.  Will probably upgrade this some day.
INTEL G1820 Haswell (link) - It's a Celeron, only bought it because it was cheap ($48) and I wanted to make sure all the other parts worked before getting beefy.
KINGSTON KVR16E11/8 8gb ECC RAM (link) - Top of the line on the Certified RAM list for the MOBO.  Only have 1 stick right now, will be getting more as money permits.

Currently my BIG drives are 4x4tb Seagate NAS drives.  Have only ever had these drives in this server build.  The first drive I bought around 200 days ago was showing signs of failing with Bad Sectors, so I just got the replacement drive yesterday.  The rest of my drives in here are 500gb-2tb of various sizes and manufacturers (mostly Seagate, like 3 WD's, 2 Hitachi, and 1 Toshiba).  My oldest drive currently is 6 Years 27 Days old (according to StableBit Scanner).  I have 5 drives that are 1 year old or newer, 12 that are pushing 3 years, and the remaining 4 are 5+ years.  Still have 3 drive spaces open!  OS is not included, on an internal SSD next to the power supply.  My SAS controller is connected to a SAS Expander which can drive 36 drives internally, and patch out to another controller externally and drive up to another 64 drives (I think that's what it was, pretty large number in any case that I'll never be able to fill).  Total storage available is 30tb, but this is always changing.  AVAILABLE storage right now is only about 700gb. (heh.. only)

[stigzler]

7 hours ago, tthurman said:

Looks like two of these are available.

A fellow in this thread claims it worked for him.

CAS 6 is a tiny bit slower, but it's got that ever so important 1.8 volt requirement.  

This one is also mentioned, and gets you back to CAS5.

You found some of the Kingston! I couldn't find that for love nor money. Yeah - I've been all over that thread like a cheap suit. As with anything internet, I've also read somewhere that it should be CL5 - so I'm not sure about CL6.

Yeah - the Mushkin 991762 is the holy grail. However, it is also obsolete. Amazing you found a strip - however - also see this is used. I'm thinking after the royal PITA all this has caused I need to get new.

The Kingston might be a right find though, thanks. I've posted on an ex495 site - hoping someone comes back with a definitive on whether CL6 is OK. Nice price to compared to £90 that I've seen for equivalent!

Hans - yu the daddy when it comes to servers - I kneel before the mighty Norco! (You did name it, right??). It was the fact that all the hassle seemed to be random and intermittent that made me check the memory. 

[hansolo77]

I called it Cerebro.. and have it's Desktop Wallpaper set as the door to Cerebro from the X-Men movie.    Basically this:

[tthurman]

8 hours ago, stigzler said:

Yeah - the Mushkin 991762 is the holy grail. However, it is also obsolete. Amazing you found a strip - however - also see this is used. I'm thinking after the royal PITA all this has caused I need to get new.

At this time and point, unless you luck into finding some new old stock, you are unlikely to find any high(er) performance chips.  Manufacturers quickly move onward from enthusiasts products when new products hit.  Silverline isn't one of Mushkin's top brands, but 4GB DDR2 was a rarity even in DDR2's day.  I would personally opt for the Mushkin over the Kingston, but I seriously doubt a little slower memory (CAS 6) would be a problem, but with it being HP, it could.  I'm sure you know this, but basically it's just a bit slower, which is not unusual in higher capacity sticks even today.  2GB sticks in the enthusiasts levels back with DDR2 1066 were 5 for instance.  CAS latency was typically 6 in the DDR2 800 days, and my guess is HP spec'd it for 5 since the machine is a bit crippled by a single channel memory controller.

 

[stigzler]

Assume I know nothing when it comes to the details of mobo, mem, cpu interactions. The mushkin deal also stipulated didn't ship to UK, so the stars are aligning I think towards trying the Kingston CL6. The true issue is stability + capacity over a 5% ram speed increase. The problem comes when the RAM is maxing out (which it is now on 2GB - making it very sticky to use + updates etc seem to be taking longer). When the 4G was installed, despite being defective, windows ran zippy. Thus, I think the aim is to have 4G over 2G, not so much CL5 vs 6

I've also discovered you can manually set the timings in the bios, but no idea whether I should!

All the cpu bus speed stuff is a bit beyond my head atm (think mine is 1333MHz? - have no idea how this related to the ram)

So yeah - gonna wait one more day to see if ever get a reply on the mediasmart fanboy site (not holding my breath) + then plump for the Kingston. which was, btw, another great find - all rams were looking around £90. This is coming in at £25! Might grab a couple if one works

cheers again, t.

 

[RIP-Felix]

Have you considered upgrading your system? Otherwise, e-bay. I saw a few 4g modules on newegg,but 1 specifficly said AMD board only. There was another in cas5, but it might be hit or miss. Good luck!

[stigzler]

I am middle aged with a beard. I do not upgrade, I squeeze every bit of life out of things.  

My Ipod is a Ipod video bought 10 years ago. My server was released in 2009. I am scouring the planet to get parts to make/keep it working. My phone and tablet are legacy, but the first ones to have 4G/nfc etc...

I like to skate that grifting/skin flint line. 

Unless I'm buying an esoteric custom marquee sized display from china and then i just go mental.

Thanks for shopping with Victor Meldrew and have a nice day.

[stigzler]

Nightmare (again - this server is the bane of my bloody life)

Fitted the  Kingston KVR800D2N6/4G purchased from the above link and now my server's bricked

Some fella posted recently that the 16 unit ones are somehow incompatible. However, I didn't predict it killing my machine. 

Put the original working 2G back in. Wouldn't start up. The PSU doesn't even fire. 

Re-seated the CPU. Removed cmos battery and replaced after 2 mins. Still PSU doesn't spark up. 

Just one tiny stick of ram has f*****d my whole system.

I need to give up on computers full stop. They're evil and awful. 

[hansolo77]

You sure it's not the PSU?  Draco was dead on right when he suggested that as MY problem a year ago or so.  There is a way you can jumper 2 pins on the motherboard connector of the power supply to force the PSU to power on.  Not sure which ones, but if you look it up it's real easy (like use a paperclip or something).  That can at least let you know that it's not the PSU.  Also.. you sure you got the RAM in all the way?  Sounds like a dumb obvious question, but since you are dealing with RAM, maybe you didn't install it right?  Lastly, have you tried booting it WITHOUT RAM?  There should be enough base RAM on the Mobo to let you at least get a POST.

 

[tthurman]

I'd have to guess that it's unlikely a stick of memory killed your system stigzler, especially if it didn't post.  If you're not seeing any "spark" of life at all then I would have to agree about the PSU being the problem.  How long has this server been on without a fairly long term power off cycle?  Sort of the old a "object in motion tends to stay in motion" is in effect to some degree IMO.  It could very well be you proprietary PSU just gave it up.

I can't see where re-seating the CPU would do anything beneficial, but I've certainly been wrong before.  Even bad memory would POST, and would be much more likely to cause a random crash while in use, not so much just immediately corrupt everything upon booting.

My suggestion would be to unplug from the wall, pull the CMOS battery, wait a few minutes or half hour, plug back in and boot.  Be sure to get the battery back in correctly +/-.  

I've done this with numerous ASUS broads running dual channel memory, but in your case you only got one stick to work with.

If you get it back online then I suggest you back everything up, and build your own server.  HP, Dell.....whatever, are not enthusiast level machines, and tend to be designed with planed obsolescence in mind, IMO. 

 

 

 

[stigzler]

It's the PSU. Worse, I think it was my fault - I misconnected a fan plug (pins wrong) whilst it was up and running and the unit shut down. Never powered up again. Amazing that something like a fan header can fry a psu!

so choice being £60 for a new psu + £90 (£150) for the RAM upgrade vs £210 for a Dell PowerEdge T20 Intel Xeon. Suppose I could rip the ex495 apart and sell the parts too.

What a bloody faff.

[Draco1962]

Wow! I was right without even posting. Is this how omnipotence feels? Sorry to hear you are having these issues and a tough decision to make, but maybe getting some new kit will be better in the long run and less headache.

[stigzler]

Cheers god. Either that or McDonalds.

 

[Draco1962]

[hansolo77]

Even though it's a bummer, at least you know what it is.  Glad you figured out it was the PSU.  As Draco said, that is a tough decision on where to go next.  If you're short on cash, obviously replacing parts is better.  But if longevity is more important, save your paycheck another week and upgrade.  That's what I did.  I was on a desktop turned server for years.  Then I decided it was time to upgrade, and have been slowly adding bits and pieces to my server.  Been probably a year now.  Slow and steady wins the race, so they say.

[stigzler]

Thunked about it. New kit. And a big bloody sledge hammer to the ex495 for being such a pita over the years. 

So back to the OP! Should I bother with an ssd as the OS drive? Using WHS2011. If so - how big should I go (as the actress said to the bishop).

[Draco1962]

For an always-on server an SSD is a waste IMO. Increased boot speed is great for laptops and gaming rigs, but overkill for a server. Depending on what you buy and what drives you have for storage already, I would have a modestly sized C: partion for the OS (100 GB is probably plenty) and probably go with a D: partition for installing the applications. The remainder for storage and whatever you add in additional drives from there.

[hansolo77]

I went with the SSD on my server, but like Draco said, it wasn't really worth it.  Yeah, the system boots up nice and quick if it's in a cold boot situation, but that hardly ever happens anymore.  You might appreciate it if there is a System Update, as it installs a lot quicker (and of course the reboot is quick).  This was my first SSD, and my experience was actually pretty bad.  I bought a really cheap drive (120gb, like $40).  It was dropping connections to the motherboard a lot, but I couldn't figure out why.  Either a SATA cable issue, or power.  Seems to have fixed itself though (knock on wood!) as I haven't had a major lockup from the OS drive failing in months.  All it has is the OS, a separate hidden partition for emergency recovery, and 2 or 3 apps (CuteFTP, PerfectDisk, etc.).  For storage, I went with StableBit DrivePool.  Loving every minute of it, and it's not very expensive to get a license.  If you get the trial, you'll soon discover how nice it is and buy a copy.  I also have StableBit Scanner, which monitors drive health (SMART data) and on a schedule performs a data integrity and sector scan.  It alerts you via on screen, email, and text (if you set it up) of a drive alert, and provides automated functions to start duplicating data off a failing drive into the rest of your pool so you don't risk the chance of data loss.  With DrivePool, you have a lot more flexibility than with Window's Storage Spaces.  For instance, you can specifically designate if you want a drive to be used for duplicated or unduplicated files.  For me, if a drive is showing signs of failure, I mark it for use only as a duplicated drive (so no unduplicated files exist on it incase it completely dies).  You can also specify a drive to be designated as the "new file/folder" drive, where anything new going into the pool goes there first, and is duplicated out later.  I haven't set this up yet, but it's ideal for using an SSD as a download drive, to increase throughput.  There are other features too, like specifying to have more than the standard 2x duplication across the pool, and even 1x on stuff you don't need duplicated, and this goes clear down to file level, so you can specify how an entire drive, folder, OR file is to be duplicated.  It's a very mature program and is always being worked on.  Their forum is very helpful and their chief tech support guy is really cool (sold me his spare SAS controller card and SAS cables!).  I highly recommend it.