"Official" Star Wars 7 Thread (warning SPOILERS!)

[hansolo77]

Ok, seriously.. don't read this thread unless you have seen the movie.

No seriously, you'll regret it!

Ok, don't say I didn't warn you!

---

Ok, so do we love or hate the movie? I just got home from seeing it. I'm still indifferent about it. First of all, I'm dead. But I knew that was coming. Harrison Ford was not at all a fan of these movies. He wanted to be written out of script back when Episode 4 was being made. He planned on taking his credits and just blasting off into the sunset. But no, George went and had him come back and save the day. So he begged for Han to get killed off in Episode 5. He confronts Vader and gets frozen into carbonite. But no, George wanted him to come back in Episode 6. Now 30 years later, he finally gets his wish. Can't really blame him. Although I hate to say it, Mr. Ford is getting old, and his character really lost a lot of the spunk he used to have. It was endearing to see him in action again though, and much of this movie had him in it. But when the movie got to the point where he and Kylo were on that bridge, I just KNEW what was going to happen. I didn't want it to, but it made sense. It helps to further develop Kylo Ren's character as an empowered Sith.

Now.. Kylo being Han and Leia's kid? That's not really necessary except for the fact that it helped to cement Kylo's story. I mean, it could have been anybody, like maybe Wedge's nephew or something. What I can see happening, is they'll develop the backstory of him more and we'll discover that Kylo Ren was one of Luke's students that he failed in teaching, and Luke's seclusion of guilt was because he brought the galaxy's new terrible threat to fruition.

BB-8? Had my doubts, but he grew on me, and he's definitely a new member of the cast in my book.

Finn and Rei? Love them. I'm not racist, but I don't like interracial hookups, especially if it's a white chick and a black dude. Maybe I'm just bitter because my mom divorced my dad and married a black guy. Maybe it's because most of the girls I like end up dating black dudes instead of me. But this guy, he seems pretty cool. And in the interviews and stuff I've seen, I think he'd be a really cool friend, so I'm cool with that. Just stay away from my Rei Rei :wub: . Now fast forward a few movies.... Are we going to see them fighting each other? So far, the story is that Finn has no force powers, just a good soldier. Rei is the one with the "gift".

Use of CGI.. Very exceptable as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, there was use of it, but the movie was not drenched to dripping in it like the prequels were. I mean, there was so MUCH of it in the pre's that you were left wondering how in the world everything went from THAT to what was in the original trilogy (not the limits of the effects, but the limits of the technology ON SCREEN). And there was so much un-needed CGI in the pre's. Like it was just done because they could. In this movie though, the CGI was only used where needed to help move along the story. Thinking back on it now, the only issue I had with it was when those weird tentacle monsters were chasing the heroes and Scotty from Star Trek on Han and Chewie's salvage ship. That bit wasn't necessary, and probably that whole segment could have been rewritten.

The new bad guy... Snoke. What's your take on him? My take, is that he's always been there. HE is the Sith master. The one that nobody ever suspected. Palpatine was HIS apprentice. By giving Palpatine free reign of control, he lured him into a false sense of security. Palpatine thought he was the biggest and baddest, but in truth Snoke was off somewhere secretly keeping watch. Palpatine might not even have known he existed. But when Snoke witnessed as Luke developed into a true threat and Palpatine/Vader killed off, only then does Snoke begin to worry. I feel like the TRUE Star Wars story is just beginning. Finally, after 6 movies and countless eons, the TRUE cast of characters are being revealed. I have high hopes that this Snoke character will be revealed as a truly awesome foe that surpasses Palpatine in every way.

Overall approval rating? I give it a healthy 7. Compared to the Prequels? I give it an 11. Hell yes it's better than the prequels. And I'm sad to say that. I really hoped the prequels would be something positive to the Star Wars lore. Comparing them, the originals are still the best. But the prequels feel like they were just made to fill in the episode numbers and explain the backstory to those people who watch the movies un-religiously. To the fans, it was always better to have the mystery. I only gave it a 7 though because I didn't like that they killed Han. I don't like the interracial stirring of emotions, and I'm not at all sure I like where they're going with Luke.

Going forward? I dunno. Disney is planning (or at least was the last time I checked) to release a new Star Wars movie every year for the next decade. That's good for a fan, but I fear the capabilities of the story if they're not going to at least try and incorporate some of the pre-exisiting "Legends" material. So far, we've seen 2 sets of trilogies where the story is nicely compact in those sets. To extend a story beyond that and keep it interesting is going to be difficult. George Lucas' plan was to have a trilogy of trilogies, and then an end cap. Disney's plan for at least 9 more movies is likely going to severely oversaturate things to the point where you'll be like "another Star Wars movie? eh I'll pass".

So... discuss!

Edited December 20, 2015 by nullPointer
SPOILERS! =D

[nullPointer]

Awesome man! I'm glad you got to see it. OK so it looks like we're going there. So yeah if you've not seen the movie and you wish to remain spoiler free (trust me you do), don't go opening spoiler tags from here on out.

Although I hate to say it, Mr. Ford is getting old, and his character really lost a lot of the spunk he used to have. It was endearing to see him in action again though, and much of this movie had him in it.

I have to say that to my eye the trailers made Han look like a bit of a crotchety old man, and I was relieved to see that it wasn't actually the case on screen. I really got a latter day Clint Eastwood vibe from Ford's performance. Not so much the young hot shot anymore as the guy that's seen everything, and has been tempered by years of hard living.

What I can see happening, is they'll develop the backstory of him more and we'll discover that Kylo Ren was one of Luke's students that he failed in teaching, and Luke's seclusion of guilt was because he brought the galaxy's new terrible threat to fruition.

I think Han and Leia discussed this very thing at one point (That Kylo had started training under Luke but was lured away)? Maybe I imagined that?

Finn and Rei? Love them. I'm not racist, but I don't like interracial hookups, especially if it's a white chick and a black dude.

Gah! Not the, "I'm not racist, but ... <racist thing>" speech! I thought you were above such cliched dialogue!? Wha? Any hoo ... I really liked both characters. Here's where I'm going to get a far away look in my eyes for a moment. When I was a kid I really got into Star Wars (like a lot of us I'm sure), and in the character of Luke I saw something I could aspire to in terms of strength of character, indomitable spirit, never-say-die attitude and that sort of thing. Luke Skywalker had a crazy dad he didn't understand; I had a Dad that I barely knew. In someways Star Wars informed my world view at a young age. It sounds corny but it's true. So fast forward 30 years (give or take) and I'm a father of twin girls. I can't explain it, but it in some ways I feel like the circle has completed itself. My girls will have a hero with which they can identify over a story in which we share a mutual bond (or at least one of my girls ... the other one could care less about Star Wars). I'm glad that in this set of films they will find a badass, self reliant, take-no-shit, Jedi girl in no need of rescue for which they can look up to. I'm stoked about this particular aspect.

Overall approval rating? I give it a healthy 7. Compared to the Prequels? I give it an 11. Hell yes it's better than the prequels.

Yeah as I was watching Force Awakens I was making comparisons to previous films as well (I'm sure a lot of people have been). Here's where I landed with it. The Original Trilogy was operating on a micro scale. It was very much a character driven tale. The Prequel Trilogy was an event driven story. The characters didn't matter nearly as much as the events unfolding around them (or maybe the characters weren't strong enough to carry the story ... maybe both). It was operating on a macro scale. Force Awakens has dialed back the scope and is once again focusing on characters. In addition to the characters discussed already, I'm loving the character of Kylo Ren. He carries the appropriate level of menace, and restraint, and yet ... he completely loses his shit when things aren't going his way. I thought that was a nice touch in that it showed that in many ways he's still a reckless kid prone to fits of rage. I also loved the new saber. I wasn't sure that I would, but it's jsut menacing as hell. It seems to carry with it a weight and heft that we haven't seen before, and the jagged sputtering edge is just pure evil. Also that frozen blaster bolt at the beginning!? Are you kidding me!? Completely badass. I'm super curious to see where they're going with the whole Knights of Ren business.

Overall approval rating? I give it a healthy 7. Compared to the Prequels? I give it an 11. Hell yes it's better than the prequels.

For me I'd go so far as an 8 maybe even 9. I have a couple of nits to pick, but nothing major enough to get worked up about (R2 waited until the exact moment of Han's death to wake up? Wha? Deus ex Machina much?) I'm equally curious to see where they're taking the Luke story (basically I see him playing the part of a surrogate Yoda to Rei). The ending certainly scored high on my "binge watching scale" (i.e. if I were watching a TV show, and I had the ability to immediately watch the next episode, would I unquestioningly do so?).

Oh! So man this easter egg. I haven't seen anything else about it so maybe it's just me. But when Maz Kanata is talking to Rei in the cellar(?) of her establishment, I swear I spotted a decrepit old Dalek in amongst the decommissioned droids down there. Probably wishful thinking, but I'd like to think it was a clever tip of the hat to another long running sci-fi institution. Stranger things have happened!

[stigzler]

I heard the Times (UK) film critic suggesting that JJ Abrams did a better job of Star Wars than George Lucas. That is why:

a) Next time I will stop listening at her second word if her first isn't "sorry..."

b ) I will continue to refuse to read the Times.

c) I will continue to refuse to ever be a Tory.

d) I will continue to will Murdoch's passing with renewed vigour.

My 2c - haven't seen it yet - have to wait till on DVD.

[hansolo77]

Oh! So man this easter egg. I haven't seen anything else about it so maybe it's just me. But when Maz Kanata is talking to Rei in the cellar(?) of her establishment, I swear I spotted a decrepit old Dalek in amongst the decommissioned droids down there. Probably wishful thinking, but I'd like to think it was a clever tip of the hat to another long running sci-fi institution. Stranger things have happened!

Ha! I didn't even notice that. I remembered you saying something about an Easter Egg and was looking for something like that, but didn't see anything.

[RIP-Felix]

I heard the Times (UK) film critic suggesting that JJ Abrams did a better job of Star Wars than George Lucas. That is why:

a) Next time I will stop listening at her second word if her first isn't "sorry..."

b ) I will continue to refuse to read the Times.

c) I will continue to refuse to ever be a Tory.

d) I will continue to will Murdoch's passing with renewed vigour.

My 2c - haven't seen it yet - have to wait till on DVD.

Firstly, the Abrams vs Lucas debate will have to wait until after episode 8. The Sequel is usually the worst of a trilogy, but for me at least, The Empire Strikes Back was the best sequel to have ever been made. JJ has a LOT of ground to make up before he creeps into that conversation. Hey, I like the new Star Trek movies, but Lucas has way more movies I love than JJ. So, although I think he nailed episode 7, it's WAY too soon to start comparing him to Lucas. I don't deify George Lucas the way many seem to, I think he has a great imagination and I enjoy his work, even admire it, but I fall short of adulation. So if JJ Abrams were to put together a great career like Lucas, I would certainly consider the comparison, but he hasn't yet and won't for a long time. That's all I'm saying. As for if he did a better job with star wars than Lucas, I would say he needs to answer a few questions raised in episode 7 in the next film exactly right before that can even be considered. Something JJ can never do is take the story away from Lucas. It will always be George's brain child, and for this reason Abrams can probably only do a worthy imitation of the mold Lucas broke. I think episode 7 was worthy!

DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DON"T WANT THE MOVIE TO BE RUINED. SERIOUSLY, IF YOU HAVEN"T SEEN IT, DON'T READ THIS;:

Pros:

• A Character driven plot that was well set up and not lacking on action. Han Solo's Death at the Hands of his son, to cement Kylo's villain transformation to the Dark side, is the only way to kill him. As angry as it made me, it works well to emotionally invest me in the rebellion's plight and hate Kylo. As much as I hate to say it, they can't make up a story in future episodes about how Han didn't die. Not without detracting from the character development of Kylo or the viewers resultant emotional investment. I need to see how Han's death is rectified. If he's not dead, that need is lessened. Sucks, but really makes me want to keep watching, especially since Luke will be taking the reins in the next film.
• CGI is used un-egregiously and as necessary,
• There were parallels/nods to what worked in episode 4, like the bar scene. In both movies this is where the majority of the alien forms are seen, since it's important to establish the setting as a space drama and not every life form resembles humans. I generally dislike to see a dozen or more humanoid aliens in a movie or space themed drama. It comes off too much like star trek and begs the question why every assumingly independently evolved alien species looks like humans. Stargate had a great answer for this, because humans were enslaved and disbursed throughout the Galaxy. Of course most aliens seen in stargate were these enslaved humans and there were only a handful of independently evolved alien species, all of which were sufficiently diverse enough to scatter this criticism. In like form the aliens seen in the bar were varied just enough to be believable, assuming 2 arms and 2 legs are a major criteria for higher life forms capable of relating to humans, which is another important consideration. Dolphins and whales may be as smart as us, mounting evidence is suggesting they are, but we struggle to relate to them due to habitat and language barriers. Species like these, that have body form, habitat, and language barriers make it useless to include them in a intergalactic bar scene. So they presumably do exist, you just see the alien species that relate with our niche - the humanoids. The bar scene also serves as hub for exchange of information, chartering travel, and the lair of scum and spies necessary to create the sense of danger, treachery, and uncertainty. I liked that this nod to the first movie wasn't just thrown into the movie as a cameo, but served as a pivotal crossroads cementing the character of Fin. It's here his allegiance is forged. JJ was able to defeat the potential traps I saw the moment I realized they were doing the bar scene. It was well done, IMO!
• I liked the use of haze effects. It gave great credibility and believability to distance shots. The scale of these huge vessels was well done IMO. Toward the beginning of the movie where Rei is salvaging parts from a crashed destroyer she enters a cargo bay or maybe a docking bay, it gave you a real sense of just how large these ships are, something that was not done that well in the original. Battle scenes were intense and restored respect to weapons like the Tie Fighter and Chewy's crossbow blaster, the explosion of the containment node was visceral, and the collapse of the Death Planet back into a star was believable. I caught myself expecting a death star explosion but knowing that it should be a re-emerging fusion reaction where the star inflates and swallows the planet. Although the Inflation was not to the scale I was expecting, it should have been hundreds of times the size of the Death planet but only looked to be about twice once it emerged and swallowed the planet, I'm glad they got it right in principal and didn't cop out with a fake explosion. It contributed greatly to the believabilty of the film. I really liked the visual blending of CGI and props. It gave back that immersion that was lost in episodes 1,2 and 3. I was able to simply enjoy the movie without feeling like I'm watching an animated cartoon. It also, restored the demographic of the first films, adult and teenagers, No jar-jar binks for the kids BS. The closest thing to that was the Red-White Ball droid thing (can't remember its designation) that kinda replaced R2-D2 for most of the film. It gave mild comic relief and brought a jovial levity to what may have been overly dark and violent for younger viewers. I would say this film is violent enough to appeal to mature audience while skirting the line of being too violent for children. Depends on your sensibilities.

Cons:

• The maneuvers of the X-wing, during the scene where Rei is abducted by Kylo and Fin decides not to run, were too sharp. You can Kinda tell when it looks like a kid flying his lego airplane around the room that the wind resistance and aerodynamics of in atmosphere flight are being broken. It felt too CGI. I felt like they should have added some low pressure condensation clouds around the wings (you know the cloud that forms around planes breaking the sound barrier in humid air) where the maneuvers were sharp enough to give that sence of thrust and G force. I know how hard thoes turns were, but didn't get the sence of it. Contrast that with the scene where Ren and Fin destroy the Tie Fighter and you will know what I'm talking about. The bank the Millennium Falcon took that lined Fin up for the shot gave that sence of just how hard that turn was and how much power/thrust the ship has. That scene left me feeling geeked, "Oh s*&t, that was sick!" The x-wing scene was too, it just needs a little more post processing to remove that air of doubt. JJ did an incredible job of paying attention to these little details, I'm not surprised a few made it past him. Nothing a remastered version can't fix.
• Leia's Voice has changed drastically! Wow, did she ruin it smoking or something? Seriously, you could do a sided by side comparison as an anti smoking ad.

Other:

• Not sure if this is a con or a Pro, so I'll go with other. Kylo seems to aspire to Darth Vader his grandfather. I'm wondering why he is not respecting the change of heart that Vader had when he Killed the sith and saved Lukes life. If Kylo trained under Luke, wouldn't he have told him of his grandfathers reconciliation? So, why does Kylo want to be as powerful with the dark side of the Force as Darth Vader was, instead of becoming a powerful Jedi like his uncle is and grandfather was? Wouldn't Vader's story have served as warning? There must have been a falling out, something far more cogent than his family's story of what happened to have lured Kylo to the dark side. Cogent enough that he would murder his own father to complete the transformation to the Dark Side. This has to be good, and I'm a little worried that they've written themselves into a corner (Like when Nick Cage said "Life Altering" in national treasure 2 describing what he saw in the presidents secret book, there can't be a third movie because the writers can't think of any plot to live up to that single statement). Unless Kylo was a narcissistic or psychopathic bad egg to begin with, which would be a monstrous cop out, I'm very curious to see how he could turn his back on this entire family, choosing not to emulate the example of Darth Vader's reconciliation, since he obviously extols him, but his transformation to the Dark Side instead. This is the cliff hanger that makes me want to see the next film so badly.

Ok, Final verdict:

• Buy a ticket and go see it! It was worth the $10 + $8.59 for popcorn
• I'm very nit picky about little details, especially when it sets up the atmosphere toward the beginning of a movie. If it's not believable it makes me question the whole movie instead of be immersed in the plot and enjoying the movie. Same thing with bad effects, language, and science. Yes I know it's fiction, I've heard the idiots wine, "Why are you questioning the science of a fictitious movie about aliens? You believe the part about being in space with an evil emperor using magic to rule by fear, but question every little thing that doesn't seem right?". Equivocate all you want, this kind of criticism comes from ignorance. Every fan and author of science fiction knows its about the quality of the science fiction; Good science fiction is based on good science and good fiction. I'm glad to say this movie was both, at least at first glance (I haven't studied it with a microscope, that would be excessive). If I don't notice anything glaringly wrong, or overdone by other scifi dramas, the first time watching, I'm satisfied
• 9/10 (But I love Star Wars. Actually that probably makes this 9 mean more if you think about it, the movie has to satisfy more criteria to live up to my expectations).

[hansolo77]

Well said. I agree with all your points Felix!

[Tom Speirs]

I enjoyed it. I've got no criticism. After all it is really only a kids film. I didn't even mind princess anti-Viagra.

[Draco1962]

Glad I am a kid at heart. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, there are plot holes, then the whole parsecs argument (who is to say that a parsec isn't a measurment of time in "their" galaxy? Stick it, Neil deGrasse Tyson! Yeah, the physics of their planet killing machine don't make sense, but you know all about killing planets, don't ya?).

[RIP-Felix]

Glad I am a kid at heart. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, there are plot holes, then the whole parsecs argument (who is to say that a parsec isn't a measurment of time in "their" galaxy? Stick it, Neil deGrasse Tyson! Yeah, the physics of their planet killing machine don't make sense, but you know all about killing planets, don't ya?).

We should, we're doing a pretty good job with our own.

[Draco1962]

We, should, we're doing a pretty good job with our own.

True, but NdGT killed Pluto! The bastard..

[RIP-Felix]

touche

[hansolo77]

Glad I am a kid at heart. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, there are plot holes, then the whole parsecs argument (who is to say that a parsec isn't a measurment of time in "their" galaxy? Stick it, Neil deGrasse Tyson! Yeah, the physics of their planet killing machine don't make sense, but you know all about killing planets, don't ya?).

Uhg this argument again. Look guys, read the book, written by George Lucas. HE EXPLAINS THIS WHOLE THING..... The "Kessel Run" isn't a race. It's a widely used trade route and transport lane in hyperspace. Jumping through hyperspace requires multiple jumps to travel the great distances of the galaxy. Until the Millennium Falcon made it's run, the galaxy only knew of it to take something like 20 parsecs. But with Han Solo piloting and his "special" technical modifications to the hyperspace navi-computer, they were able to make the trip in only 12 parsecs. Shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. Everybody else jumped around in a semi-circle while Han's adjustments manged to shave out a few jumps, thus making the distance shorter. So yes, the Millennium Falcon instantly because a galactic superstar because it was able to navigate a quicker/shorter distance.

In other news.. got another reason why I'm ready to kill my stepmom move out.. We were at my Dad's sisters for Christmas Eve. My aunt asked if I'd seen the movie yet. I said "YEAH!" then Dad said "me to!". My stepmom turns in disgust at him, like she was mad he saw it without her. She then gets all huffy "how could you have seen it, it's still in theaters?! It just came out!" She really hates that I download movies after I pay $20 to go see it in the theater and then go and buy the BluRay too. She also thinks "The Mighty Ducks" Disney movie was too violent.

[Tom Speirs]

At your age buddy you should definitly think about moving out I was a late bloomer too (at 30) but it changed a lot for me. You don't really start to live your own life otherwise.

[Draco1962]

I moved out at about 22. I was the oldest of 4 children and while my siblings all moved out between the ages of 16 (youngest who ran away from home) to 19, I have never moved back to my parents since I left. Tom is right, you really don't come into your own so long as you are under the shadow of your parents.

[Kustom Kid]

Tom and Draco speak the truth. I moved out when I was 18. I had brief stints living back with my parents. A few weeks when I was waiting for my house to be moved into when I was 25. The latest was for 6 months when I lost my (different) house, was pretty much broke paying for lawyer fees fighting my son's mother to be able to see him, and had nowhere else to go. That was 2 years ago, when I was 35. My second priority, aside from getting joint custody of my son, was to get back out on my own.p

[Tom Speirs]

Sorry for hijacking the thread. lol. Completely my bad

[hansolo77]

Lol it was my fault, talking once again about my fucked up stepmom. LOL!

So anyway...

STAR WARS!!!

[stigzler]

ouch Hans - is that Star Wars in Comic Sans?

My eyes....they hurt...

[hansolo77]

I was going to use something different, but oh well.

[Draco1962]

I think I can name several forum users (myself included) that would love to own this puppy...

[hansolo77]

Mommy Mommy! Buy me that!

[tthurman]

The Empire Strikes Back was the best sequel to have ever been made

Agree 100%

I can now officially join the conversation.

Just got back from the 9 AM showing, Regal RPX (IMAX Light), 1/3 capacity

Went in not expecting much after being burned by Georgy boy to many times, but I was pleasantly surprised. Nothing will bring back the 70's and 80's, but the new characters here I thought did a fantastic job creating that "feel" from days gone by. Miles better than 1,2 and 3 without a doubt, I'm so glad to see this series pulled out of the gutter.

Han was alright, and I suspect that will all be touched on again, but really to me Chewie is the only one that lived up to his prior glory.

Perhaps my most critical POV is they should never had had Kylo remove the mask, big deal breaker IMO. Just removed nearly all the villian'es feel to me.

[Kustom Kid]

Perhaps my most critical POV is they should never had had Kylo remove the mask, big deal breaker IMO. Just removed nearly all the villian'es feel to me.

I think they did that to humanize the character. Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's struggle is opposite of Anakin/Vader's. I think they wanted you to empathize a bit with the character. He thought killing his dad would make him stronger in the Dark Side, but it appeared to have the opposite effect.

[tthurman]

I think they did that to humanize the character.

Well, to me at least, we didn't find out about Anakin's face until right at the end of ROTJ. It was the mystery that kept you wondering, who is that masked man that strangles guys while holding them off the floor single handed?

To have him pull off the mask so easily, twice no less, takes him from the "I gotta bad attitude, and a worse temper, to "okay, I'm just a regular guy, nothing to see here, these aren't the droids you're looking for." No doubt about it though, stopping that blaster shot mid-air, was awesome

I get the whole dad was trying to take the son back to mom thing, but......that whole scene just seemed, meh, it did to me at least.

What about Rey, some force going on there for sure......who did Luke hook up with, or was this another brother/sister split at birth thing?

Anyone else feel like Leia's character portrayal in this one was pretty much a dud? Just seemed nearly as if it was plugged the sake of being there, no real feel came across to me from her character. Solo was pretty much saved only by the humor, but this Han Solo is nothing o me like the cocky ass from the past, no matter how much they tried. I know this sounds like a bitch fest, but both Han and Leia seemed like a "cha ching" than strong characters in this.

I think the casting for Finn and Rey were spot on, something that was sorely missing from the prequels. They brought the energy I hoped for in 1 - 3, and made me believe in their characters. They will be the main reason I look forward to the sequels to 7.

BB8 pretty much stole the show, and coming from the R2 days, I was pleasantly surprised at how easily this was managed.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it quite a lot, and look forward to the next one. I didn't however feel this was a 4.5 out of 5 movie as some critics proclaimed.

[tthurman]

....and what can I say?

It's New Years eve, and I'm rambling