No-Intro - how use them in GameEx

**JK1974** · March 13, 2009

Hi,

I have used GoodTools sets before in GameEx, and this is working great: Only one title in the gamelist, all "subversions" in the detailed view including language flags to the left.

However, I donÂ´t need all the hacks, overdumps etc., just the "originals", so renaming to No-Intro would be the way to go. And it seems to me that the bigger part of the GameEx community uses No-Intro sets in the meantime.

However, with my setup, No-Intro looks more uncomfortable, as if GameEx does not "support" No-Intro: Most games are listet several times in the game list (because the No-Intro sets are not merged, so you get the languages in the "main list"), and of course, the detailed view does not work as it does with GoodTools set.

To get the game list cleaned up, I played with the filter options, but those donÂ´t work as they just filter the sets inside the archives, not the archives themselves. So, to get e.g. only the European releases, would I really have to move all US and JP roms to a different folder?

I also converted a GoodTools set to No-Intro and used GoodMerge to convert it back. Of course, this worked and gave me the result I expected, but this would also remove newer No-Intro roms from the set. Furthermore, GoodMerged No-Intro sets are not really common. With screenshots following the No-Intro convention, this also would not help.

So, did I oversee some options, or are there some more sophisticated ways to get No-Intro sets working as "clean" as GoodTools sets? Or do we simply have to wait for further GameEx developments?

Thanx a lot in advance for your suggestions.

**chriss** · March 13, 2009

interesting post mate! i'm also about to switch to no intro now to get cleaner results and to use circos avi's.

Since Circo (emumovies.com) only offers videos for US versions of games I'll just get the newest no intro set, then unpack the roms and filter for the [uSA] ones! Then I should have a clean list with all the roms having videos!

I wonder about Gameex support of No-Intro Sets as well though... sometimes it would be nice to have the choice which version of a game you wanna play. With the way I want to do it you would also lose the chance to play titles like Back to the Future 2 for SNES which was only released in Japan. I don't know if this is a big loss though

**JK1974** · March 13, 2009

chriss said:
I wonder about Gameex support of No-Intro Sets as well though... sometimes it would be nice to have the choice which version of a game you wanna play. With the way I want to do it you would also lose the chance to play titles like Back to the Future 2 for SNES which was only released in Japan. I don't know if this is a big loss though

Well, if you have these roms, why would you abandom them for no reason?

The problem is, that you would need to scan the directories in an completely other way than before because the archives are not merged - an option like "Support No-Intro" on every emulation setup would be necessary. After scanning the directory, you would have to merge the archives internally (e.g. with some kind of array), comparing the first few letters of every game until there is a token like "(USA)" and "(Europe)". These different versions would have to be written in the array of every game. Then, the mentioned tokens would have to be removed in the gamelist, and when selecting a game, the array would have to be read to show all the different variants.

On the other hand, if the games are in alphabetical order, you could go line by line and fill e.g. a (temporary) db file comparable to the map files: One game in every line, the file names of the variants following in the next columns to the right (I donÂ´t think that you would need more than 5 of them)...

Much work - much more than my past requests concerning network support

**bkenobi** · March 13, 2009

Interesting problem. This hasn't been addressed yet, so it might be something worth looking into. The only thing is, as you know, most people here use No-Intro in their cabinets and may keep a GoodSet for archival (because they want it all!). Anyway, if you want a solution to your problem that doesn't require Tom's help, I would suggest a script. I was thinking this script would need to step through your set(s), extract all files to a temp directory, delete files that don't match your criteria (if USA available, delete JAP, EUR, etc), rezip the files to a new set location, move on...

This isn't too challenging, but it would be nice if you didn't have to do it. A map file or an edited database would do the same thing by only displaying games that matched, but it might be more work. The real problem is figuring out what files you want/don't want in an algorithmic way.

**fRequEnCy** · March 13, 2009

Here is where I would use MAP files to show all the games you want (i.e. by region). Then you can still leave your no-intro roms in the same folder and filter them out the way you're wanting. This can easily be done depending on how exactly you want it listed.

Another option is to use The Parent-Clone XML Dats for ClearMamePro to rebuild your sets. They are found at the DAT-o-MATIC part of the No-Intro Project and are mentioned here. I have not tried this myself as I would rather opt to use MAP files so my ROMS can remain untouched for updates and such.

**wahoo** · March 13, 2009

JK1974 said:
Well, if you have these roms, why would you abandom them for no reason?
The problem is, that you would need to scan the directories in an completely other way than before because the archives are not merged - an option like "Support No-Intro" on every emulation setup would be necessary. After scanning the directory, you would have to merge the archives internally (e.g. with some kind of array), comparing the first few letters of every game until there is a token like "(USA)" and "(Europe)". These different versions would have to be written in the array of every game. Then, the mentioned tokens would have to be removed in the gamelist, and when selecting a game, the array would have to be read to show all the different variants.
On the other hand, if the games are in alphabetical order, you could go line by line and fill e.g. a (temporary) db file comparable to the map files: One game in every line, the file names of the variants following in the next columns to the right (I donÂ´t think that you would need more than 5 of them)...
Much work - much more than my past requests concerning network support

This was exactly the reason behind a feature request I submitted which is to display an icon for the language:

http://www.gameex.info/forums/index.php?s=...ost&p=50823

This would apply to other naming standards as well including TOSEC. This way if there was more than one language offered for a particular game you could see the country flag similar to good merged sets and easily select the language you want. You could enable the option to display text in parenthesis in the emulator configuration and see "(USA)" or "(Japan)" but then you get a lot of characters in the name and other information in parenthesis especially for TOSEC names. Since screen real-estate can be precious I thought the language icon might be better.

**JK1974** · March 13, 2009

fRequEnCy said:
Here is where I would use MAP files to show all the games you want (i.e. by region). Then you can still leave your no-intro roms in the same folder and filter them out the way you're wanting. This can easily be done depending on how exactly you want it listed.

Filtering out is an option, but it is not as good as the support that we get for the GoodTool ROMs. I donÂ´t want to hide the US and JP roms, I just donÂ´t want to get the game list filled with duplicates because I expect them to show just in the detail view as it is with GoodTool sets. And as cowering does not seem to continue his work, at least not like the no-intro guys, it might be time to think about an extension of GameEx as no-intro seems to be the future for the majority.

Writing a tool that merges the No-Intro sets, would be an option, but as I said, this is kind of "non-standard". As fRequEnCy said, my ROMs also should remain untouched for updates and such . Maybe I am going put it on the wish list here...

Just a comparison how it could look like: GoodTools vs. GoodMerged No-Intro

Oops, German screenshots - isnÂ´t it said that they are way too organized and donÂ´t like it cluttered?

**fRequEnCy** · March 13, 2009

You can goodmerge no-intro sets using the xmdb files. However, not all no-intro systems have been converted over to the Dat-o-Matic system. So as of now, not as useful! But you can in theory make it list the exact same way as GoodMerge but again not something I would do personally to avoid having to rebuild my roms. But for someone who doesn't update all the time as I do, this can be useful.

**chriss** · March 14, 2009

Quote
Oops, German screenshots - isnÂ´t it said that they are way too organized and donÂ´t like it cluttered? wink.gif

oh man, du mÃ¼sstest mein chaos sehen

**JK1974** · March 14, 2009

chriss said:
oh man, du mÃ¼sstest mein chaos sehen

Translated: You would have to see my chaos...

Well, same here. My comment should have been also a little side-note that a German wants sorted ROMs - what an incident...

**chriss** · March 15, 2009

yeah, well i guess its true

Vi are not fah avay from da stereotypes!

Anyways, before this thread disappears on second page and is thereby send to the graveyard I still hope that Tom has maybe something to say about this.

Tom, in case you are reading this: is there a plan to support no intro in gameex?

**yves31** · March 15, 2009

Hi,

I'm using a lot of the no-intro as well, I agree that it would be nice to have support for it.

Yves

**JK1974** · March 16, 2009

A major problem I have just seen is: How do you find out which games belong together if they are called differently in different regions?

Star Fox 64 for N64 was called "Star Fox 64" in US and Japan, in Europe it was apparently called "Lylat Wars". Having it stored in one archive like with GoodTools makes it clear that they belong together, but after using clrmamepro for converting it to No-Intro gives me those two completely different names.

**chriss** · March 16, 2009

apparently nintendo wasn't allowed to name it star fox in europe. they had some copyright issues with another company holding the name (like gmail in germany)

anyways, fortunately most games have the same name no matter in which country they were released so if there are two entries for a couple of games in my cabinet's game list I wouldn't mind it.

Germans would look for Lylat Wars if they wanna play the game and Americans on the same Arcade would look for Star Fox so I think it would be even more confusing sorting it under the same name...

**fRequEnCy** · March 16, 2009

JK1974 said:
A major problem I have just seen is: How do you find out which games belong together if they are called differently in different regions?
Star Fox 64 for N64 was called "Star Fox 64" in US and Japan, in Europe it was apparently called "Lylat Wars". Having it stored in one archive like with GoodTools makes it clear that they belong together, but after using clrmamepro for converting it to No-Intro gives me those two completely different names.

Read my above Post. If you use the P/Clone dats then you'll get this info. See below. Seems like Lylat Wars was the Parent and the rest are Clones.

0387 - Lylat Wars (Europe) (En,Fr,De)
	0386 - Lylat Wars (Australia) (En,Fr,De)
	0685 - Star Fox 64 (Japan)
	0686 - Star Fox 64 (USA)
	0687 - Star Fox 64 (USA) (Rev A)

**igelkotten** · March 17, 2009

JK1974 said:
Filtering out is an option, but it is not as good as the support that we get for the GoodTool ROMs. I donÂ´t want to hide the US and JP roms, I just donÂ´t want to get the game list filled with duplicates because I expect them to show just in the detail view as it is with GoodTool sets. And as cowering does not seem to continue his work, at least not like the no-intro guys, it might be time to think about an extension of GameEx as no-intro seems to be the future for the majority.
Writing a tool that merges the No-Intro sets, would be an option, but as I said, this is kind of "non-standard". As fRequEnCy said, my ROMs also should remain untouched for updates and such . Maybe I am going put it on the wish list here...
Just a comparison how it could look like: GoodTools vs. GoodMerged No-Intro
Oops, German screenshots - isnÂ´t it said that they are way too organized and donÂ´t like it cluttered?

JK1974: How did you set up the region flag icons?

**fRequEnCy** · March 17, 2009

igelkotten said:
JK1974: How did you set up the region flag icons?

These are shown by default when using GoodMerge Rom sets.

**X1pheR** · March 17, 2009

Most of my sets are also No-Intro and I too noticed the overbloated gamelist like JK1974 did.

The 2d screenshot as JK1974 posted would be excellent! So is there any way to get this done and leaving the no-intro romfolder intact for future updates?

**bkenobi** · March 17, 2009

You could use one of the tools to goodmerge your nointro set. I don't know if the naming conventions will be a problem (that's been discussed in this thread already though). Anyway, if the set is goodmerged then it will show up like the second screenshot.

**JK1974** · March 17, 2009

fRequEnCy said:
Another option is to use The Parent-Clone XML Dats for ClearMamePro to rebuild your sets. They are found at the DAT-o-MATIC part of the No-Intro Project and are mentioned here. I have not tried this myself as I would rather opt to use MAP files so my ROMS can remain untouched for updates and such.

I just tried this hint it on N64 files, and it indeed worked. Looks nice in GameEx now, like GoodTools archives, just the region flags are missing.

However: clrmamepro does not create solid 7z archives. So, Mario Kart 64 becomes 40 MByte instead of 8,5 MByte!

I have written the following DOS-*.bat file which converts *.zip archives (faster to create with clrmamepro and better than no compression) to solid 7z archives:

for %%i in ("*.zip") do %programfiles%\7-Zip\7z.exe e -o"%%~ni" "%%i" && %programfiles%\7-Zip\7z.exe a -t7z -ms -mmt -mx=9 "%%~ni.7z" ".\%%~ni\*" && rmdir /s /q "%%~ni" && del /q "%%i"

Just put this *.bat in the directory of your parent-clone no-intro roms and click on it. Of course, 7-zip should be installed before including the command-line version.

But as a lot of you said: I also want to keep my roms untouched for updates - a rebuilding before an update would really take quite a lot of time. So it seems to me, No-Intro support would also require reading and analysing a parent-clone XML to get the roms sorted in the correct way.

EDIT:

This is how it looks like:

There is another minor "problem": There is a boxshot for "Star Fox 64", but not for "Lylat Wars". But because the set is named "Lylat Wars", there is no option for the "Star Fox" boxshot to be displayed. If I rename the archive to "Star Fox 64.7z", the boxshot as well as the cardridge is being shown.

As it is stated in the readme, this can be solved by resorting the region settings in clrmamepro.

Furthermore, the readme says that GoodMerge should be used with the appropriate XMDB file for getting solid archives - quite a little complicated, especially as there are currently no parent-clone XMLs e.g. for NES and SNES...

**fRequEnCy** · March 17, 2009

JK1974 said:
I just tried this hint it on N64 files, and it indeed worked. Looks nice in GameEx now, like GoodTools archives, just the region flags are missing.
However: clrmamepro does not create solid 7z archives. So, Mario Kart 64 becomes 40 MByte instead of 8,5 MByte!

I've read about clrmamepro not creating solid archives as well. Here's what's taken from the notes:

Quote
While clrmamepro is able to create 7Z/RAR archives, it cannot create
"solid" archives yet. If you want solid merged archives, use GoodMerge
and the supplied XMDB file instead.

Region flags will be missing cuz regions are listed different between no-intro and goodtools. Tom would have to support the no-intro region format as well. So perhaps someone should put these features in the request pinned topic so that Tom will be more likely to see them.

**JK1974** · March 17, 2009

fRequEnCy said:
I've read about clrmamepro not creating solid archives as well. Here's what's taken from the notes:
Region flags will be missing cuz regions are listed different between no-intro and goodtools. Tom would have to support the no-intro region format as well. So perhaps someone should put these features in the request pinned topic so that Tom will be more likely to see them.

Just edited my last post because I just took a closer look into the readme - I should have done this before...

BTW.: Is there any way to detect the connection between the parent and the clone without this "specialized" dat? I havenÂ´t found any information on this in a "normal" dat. Is this an extra field in the no-intro database that is normally hidden? I wonder because when I go into the download section of the no-intro site, the information "After you click, the server will generate, on the fly, the requested file." is being displayed.

**fRequEnCy** · March 17, 2009

JK1974 said:
Just edited my last post because I just took a closer look into the readme - I should have done this before...

There's a readme?

I thought I was making all this stuff up.

Way to put in some leg work JK1974!

**X1pheR** · March 17, 2009

The dats (which are actually just xml files if you open them) that are in no-intro's dat-o-matic can be downloaded as parent-clone dats.

But for the ones that aren't in there like nes and snes for example you don't have this possibility.

I think the best and fastest way to support no-intro without parent-clone dats is to just sort on the game title itself and strip the (region) (version) (etc) tags.

Then just list that game title and all others that match with different tags as one like in the screenshots. That would sort most games right away. then just manually fix the exceptions afterwards like with Lylat Wars and Star Fox 64.

For example the following Super Mario World titles exist in the most current no-intro set:

Super Mario World - Super Mario Bros. 4 (Japan) (Rev 0A).zip

Super Mario World (Europe) (Rev A).zip

Super Mario World (Europe).zip

Super Mario World (USA).zip

Matching automatically through a script of some sort you and assume the game title stripped from tags you would get Super Mario World.

So the script could assume that number 2, 3 and 4 should all be put under "Super Mario World". The exception is the 1st one.

If you strip the tags you would get "Super Mario World - Super Mario Bros. 4" which does not match with just plain "Super Mario World".

So this would have to be manually added.

Can the listings as in the screenshots be done through making an altered map file?

Because if so, this is possible the only way right? Or is there anything else that game-ex compairs the gamelist to except the mdb files.

**igelkotten** · March 17, 2009

fRequEnCy said:
These are shown by default when using GoodMerge Rom sets.

I know this is off topic.

But, is it possible to set up when using No-Intro sets?

for example:

to show EU flag when "(Europe)" or "(E)" exists in the rom name.

to show USA flag when "(USA)" or "(U)" exists in the rom name.

No-Intro - how use them in GameEx

Recommended Posts

JK1974

chriss

JK1974

bkenobi

fRequEnCy

wahoo

JK1974

fRequEnCy

chriss

JK1974

chriss

yves31

JK1974

chriss

fRequEnCy

igelkotten

fRequEnCy

X1pheR

bkenobi

JK1974

fRequEnCy

JK1974

fRequEnCy

X1pheR

igelkotten

Donate

Browse

Products

Downloads

Activity

More