Building Custom Cabinet

[Prodigy]

A friend of mine recently bought an old arcade machine cabinet, and we're going to gut it and refinish it. We're going to use a cheap, custom build PC (with GameEx of course) and probably a used CRT monitor. Since we're never done this before, we're looking for suggestions on a couple of things.

What version of Windows (or an alternate OS?) would you suggest using? I want that fastest possible boot time, but also to be compatible with any hardware I might want to add. I'm thinking of using a custom XP Pro SP2 with most of the default services removed.

As far as joysticks go, is there any particular brand/model you would recommend? We've got an Electrical Engineering major who's going to be taking apart and rewiring the buttons and joystick onto the cabinet.

As far as the hardware we'll be getting:

Custom build PC.. still unsure on exact specs

Debating between old CRT and a TV with S-Video in.. any suggestions?

TV Tuner + Audio/Video HUB

(PS2 and XBox will be connected through this)

Joysticks and Gamepads (2 of each)

Trackball mouse

5.1 Speakers mounted on side and top, sub woofer inside.

We plan on using it as a sort of Jukebox as well, so a decent sound card is a must

We're not yet sure of this.. but possibly a projector mounted on top to project movies onto opposite wall.

We've got the combined knowledge to put this together, just looking for suggestions from somebody with a little experience. My friend knows a woodworking major who's going to modify the cabinet. An electrical engineering major to rewire the joysticks and trackball. Me, a software engineer who's going to be handling the PC and hardware/software for the PC. And of course my friend, who will be funding the entire project.

[emphatic]

A friend of mine recently bought an old arcade machine cabinet, and we're going to gut it and refinish it. We're going to use a cheap, custom build PC (with GameEx of course) and probably a used CRT monitor. Since we're never done this before, we're looking for suggestions on a couple of things.

What version of Windows (or an alternate OS?) would you suggest using? I want that fastest possible boot time, but also to be compatible with any hardware I might want to add. I'm thinking of using a custom XP Pro SP2 with most of the default services removed.

As far as joysticks go, is there any particular brand/model you would recommend? We've got an Electrical Engineering major who's going to be taking apart and rewiring the buttons and joystick onto the cabinet.

As far as the hardware we'll be getting:

Custom build PC.. still unsure on exact specs

Debating between old CRT and a TV with S-Video in.. any suggestions?

TV Tuner + Audio/Video HUB

(PS2 and XBox will be connected through this)

Joysticks and Gamepads (2 of each)

Trackball mouse

5.1 Speakers mounted on side and top, sub woofer inside.

We plan on using it as a sort of Jukebox as well, so a decent sound card is a must

We're not yet sure of this.. but possibly a projector mounted on top to project movies onto opposite wall.

We've got the combined knowledge to put this together, just looking for suggestions from somebody with a little experience. My friend knows a woodworking major who's going to modify the cabinet. An electrical engineering major to rewire the joysticks and trackball. Me, a software engineer who's going to be handling the PC and hardware/software for the PC. And of course my friend, who will be funding the entire project.

Hi,

It all depends on the shape of the "old arcade cabinet" you've gotten your hands on. Is it a working cabinet right now? If that's the case, get a J-Pac from www.ultimarc.com and use the arcade monitor+JAMMA wirings. All you need to do then is put new joysticks and buttons in it. This is your best bet.

Otherwise, if you can get a 21" PC monitor cheap (mine was 50 bucks), that's really plug & play which of course is nice. TV is also good, and it's easy if you need the bigger size. But it's also a matter of taste.

Emph

[Nologic]

OS WinXP64 unless you already have a copy of WinXP Pro or Home...I'd leave the services unless the thing is really hard up, to avoid unnecessary issues.

CPU AMD64\X2 or Intel CoreDuo

RAM 1gig any speed just as long as it fits in the motherboard.

Video onboard is fine if its like nVidia 6150 or better other wise nVidia 6600 or ATI\AMD XT1300 or above; generally an independent card isn't required.

Sound onboard is generally fine these days.

The PC mainly try to future proof your self as much as possible...but go cheap (but with name brands)

Display is more personal pref...you want it to look like an actual arcade system...or do you want high resolutions as on a PC...both have pro's and cons.

I'd generally recommend HAPP joysticks...not because they are the best...but good quality for the price...and its more important to get the thing built than have every possible kick ass part possible.

Really I'd try to spend the most towards the display rather than other parts...as the lesser parts are more prone to being replaced...and don't have as much impact subjectively as the display will.

Wells Gardner D9200 is a nice arcade display hocked up to a ArcadeVGA 2 would make for a pretty picture.

Other stuff to make things simple but pricy:

GP-Wiz MAX 32 Input USB Controls Interface

Opti-Wizâ?¢ Trackball and Spinner Interface

LED-Wizâ?¢ 32-port USB Lighting and Output Controller (not required but very nice)

NovaGemâ?¢ Lightable Horizontal Pushbutton (dependat on above)

Electric ICE-Tâ?¢ Deluxe RGB Arcade Trackball (dependat on above)

TurboTwist 2â?¢ Arcade Spinner Control or

SlikStik Tornado Spinner

Mag-Stik Plus

ACT LABS light gun

SlikStik Custom Monitor Brackets

However these are simply my thoughts...which are from someone that hasn't built a cab.

[bkenobi]

I agree and disagree with Nologic.

I agree that it's never a bad thing to have a future proof machine (well, actually I don't think one exists ). But I disagree that it's required or even a design consideration to have some of the hardware he lists. It really depends on what you are trying to do, though. I have not seen any emulation related software require or even state that it benefits from 64 bit, let alone the dual core (well, except for the new Model 2 code).

I am running an Athlon XP 3000+ with 512mb of ram and a x1300pro video card. I am using this setup primarily because of price. The ram was free, the video card was the cheapest DX9 card I could find locally after my ATI 9250 died, and the CPU was the best bang for the buck my free motherboard could handle.

This system is more than powerful enough for ~99.9% of the emulated games that I have tried. I will admit openly that some games (Carnevil, a couple Zinc and Model 2 titles, etc) don't play perfectly smooth, but I consider these edge of the envelope titles. If you want to be able to play anything available today, you might want to shell out for the best gaming rig available (let alone the cost of controls that you would need).

HOWEVER, if you don't have anything sitting around and are going to build/buy something from scratch anyway, and especially if you want to play pc titles of today and next week, spending a little extra and getting a beast isn't bad. The main thing is determine what you want to do, then decide on the PC specs and controls that you want that will accommodate the majority of your desires.

Good luck with your project!

[Nologic]

ahhh dang it.

Heh don't think I listed any thing as required.

There is actually a fair amount of Emu's starting to add support for multi-processor\multi-core.

A 64bit OS...thats some thing not really making a dent in Emu's yet other than a PS2 Emu...which isn't likely to be played on a cab.

ram is going to cost you the same more or less no matter how new or old your CPU is...same goes for motherboard...this is assuming one is buying tho...if hand-me-downs are available...then this is mute.

Just checked as pricewatch.com

$175.00 - athlon xp 3000

$172.88 - core 2 duo e4300

$165.00 - athlon 64 x2 4400 am2

64bit, dual core, faster...and $2-$10 cheaper.

Your right tho a XP 3000+ is fast enough for the bulk of the Emu's out there.

[Prodigy]

The cabinet we have right now is running. I don't know anything about the specific, specs, etc. It's running Altered Beast, with a monitor salvaged from an old Pacman cabinet (you can see the first pacman level 'burned' into the background). I don't have a digital camera, but it looks almost identical to this cabinet:

As for the PC specs, 64 bit or dual core processors are a waste. We won't be using this for anything other than emulators, a jukebox, and maybe to hook a projector up to. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of:

AMD Athlon... 2Ghz+

512 RAM

Cheapest DX9 Video Card

5.1 Sound card.. no more than $50

I hadn't thought about getting hardware specific for arcade machines. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of buying a couple joysticks like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16826102203 and just rewiring the buttons on the base to my own buttons, arranged on the cabinet. Would it affect anything if I had my controls connected over USB instead of connected directly? I haven't done any custom jobs like this before, so USB is all I'm really familiar with.

[Nologic]

Okay...but you make emulation sound like its on par with sending email.

I think your going to give your self more headaches than whats really required.

I really suggest you buy actual arcade joysticks.

I really suggest putting in 3 hours extra at work to buy a full gig of ram

I really suggest you don't buy a sound card.

I really suggest you do buy a modern motherboard with sound and video on it

I really suggest you do buy a 64bit dual core cpu...put in another 3 hours of work to pay for it.

32bit & 64bit OS = Same Price

This in the end will save you time, headaches and likely more money in the future.

[Hobo]

This is kind of related. I'm building a cabinet for a college project, and I'm working out the button layout. I think so far I'll be having 1 joystick and 8 buttons per player (probably 6 on top and 2 on the side), and a start button and insert coin button each too. I'll also have a 'quit game' button and a track ball. GameEx would be controlled by the P1 buttons/joystick.

Is there any other button I've forgotten?

[brianon]

This is kind of related. I'm building a cabinet for a college project, and I'm working out the button layout. I think so far I'll be having 1 joystick and 8 buttons per player (probably 6 on top and 2 on the side), and a start button and insert coin button each too. I'll also have a 'quit game' button and a track ball. GameEx would be controlled by the P1 buttons/joystick.

Is there any other button I've forgotten?

If you are going for Happs joysticks. Go for the Comps or Super. Stay clear of the Ultimates.

[bkenobi]

You know, I didn't check the current prices at pricewatch before posting. When I built my system ~1.5yrs ago, the XP3000+ was the bang/buck choice, but apparently it's more expensive than a dual core 64 bit now (good catch)

My basic point though is that a mid to low end budget oriented system is just fine for most things. I wasn't even aware there was a working PS2 emulator out there! Guess I'm just out of it! On the other hand, with any modern system, the games take up to 9gb of storage, so I really can't see them being an option for a while (especially when you can just buy a system off CL, ebay, pawn for so cheap)!

[Hobo]

If you are going for Happs joysticks. Go for the Comps or Super. Stay clear of the Ultimates.

I'm probably going to go with a set of about 19 Happ standard buttons, Happ P1 and P2 start buttons, and 2 Happ Competition joysticks. Still trying to find a trackball. If anyone knows where I could get a (relatively cheap) trackball, please let me know.

[Prodigy]

I've asked around elsewhere and managed to put together this setup. I still haven't bought it, but it's pretty much what I'm looking for.

AMD Athlon 64 3800+ ($90)

BIOSTAR NF61VM2 ($55)

KVR533D2N4K2/1G ($80)

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160215A 160GB ($55)

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FSP300-60GLS-R 300W ($40)

X-Arcade Two Player Joystick ($130)

Brand new, this will cost me around $500 with all the extras (keyboard, mouse, case, etc.). I've already got a monitor, and I'll get a bunch of it used, so it will be even cheaper. What do you guys think of this setup as it is? I know some of you may feel like you need a top of the line PC for emulation, but I don't plan on emulating anything newer than N64. Keep in mind that this is just a hobby, and I don't care about "future proofing" it.

[bkenobi]

Keep in mind that this is just a hobby, and I don't care about "future proofing" it.

Future proofing is not required. Nologic was saying that you should get the better system because it was better. I was saying there was no need to spend the extra money. However, as it turns out, the cost of the "better" equipment that Nologic was suggesting is actually cheaper (depending on what you want) than what I was suggesting.

Just like any other computer, future proofing is good to an extent but can be expensive without cause. If you want to future proof, just make sure you don't get stuff that can't be upgraded easily (AGP is being phased out, ISA is dead, etc.). But, there is no need to get a 6GHz overclocked beast to make sure that when the PS3 emulator comes out, you will be ready! Get a system that will play anything you want to play now and maybe add a little margin in case there are updates or something similar comes along. It doesn't usually cost that much more (if anything) to step up here and there (an extra 2-400 MHz is only a few dollars extra).

In the end, it's your machine, so pick whatever hardware, software, and controls make YOUR dream system. Then, GO BUILD IT!

[Nologic]

Over all you seem future proof, so no need for me to harp on that old dog again.

BioStar isn't that great of a name brand...you would likely fair better with Abit, Asus, Gigabyte, Fic, Tyan,...I'm always leary of dead boards and lack of bio's\driver updates.

Never heard of FSP...tho I'm not big into power supply research...I tend to lean more towards 400W+ but thats not likely required here.

X-Arcade is a PS2 hookup if I recall, ideally you want your keyboard to be on the PS2 port, also you can find it at Fry's for like $100 but I'd still lean towards hand picking your parts to put together your own control panel which if you are looking to have the same options as those available on the X-Arcade would likely come in at the same price point.

Also I don't think you need a case for the hardware...you should be able to find motherboard mounts that you can simply mount the motherboard on the side of the cab for like $1, and then you can likely find 3.5 to 5.25 hard drive solid adapter bays for like $8 that you can also surface mount to the cab...this will save money, keep parts cooler, and make cleaning out the unit every few months a breeze...just open it up and let loose with the canned air...and watch the dust bunnies fly.

I'd also lean towards finding a PS2 keyboard that has an integrated touch pad...rather than going with a mouse & keyboard combo...it may or may not cost more...but it will certainly keep things neater and easier to maintain.

Main thing from the above list...is see about a better brand for the motherboard...still like to push you in the direction of dual core tho.

bkenobi -

Well said.

[Prodigy]

I really appreciate the input here. I will certainly look into a better mobo, the only reason i picked that one is because it's cheap and it comes with a GeForce 6100

The X-Arcade control panel comes with USB or PS2 hookups, so I'll certainly be going with USB. As far as assembling my own controls, it seems like a lot of extra work to me. One of the guys I'm building this with (the electrical engineer of course) wants to make his own controls for it. We negotiated and decided to get it all set up and working with the USB controls, and we'll decide later whether or not to change the control panel. As far as the computer case goes, I think I'd rather have it. I'm still in college, and will be moving around a lot over the next few years. If would be nice to be able to dis-assemble the cabinet to make it easier to move, and it would make it a lot easier if all the PC components were in one place. It's not like cases are expensive, Newegg regularly has cases that turn out to be free after a mail-in rebate.

I've got a bit of good news as well. My little brother just found me an extremely cheap 23'' monitor, so I'll be able to start designing the cabinet around that and stop worrying about where I'll find a monitor.

[Nologic]

Well some times saving $10 will cost you $50

Well if your disassembling the X-Arcade...you would be doing the same amount of work as I was suggesting.

Actually if possible you never want to break down stuff to move it, unless its absolutely to fragile to move other wise. Trust me on this, I've worked for Allied Vanlines for decades as fill in work. If it can fit through the door leave it be. Just strap it to a refrigerator dolly, and get another person to help you out and things should be fine. Find a tight corner...lay down a sleeping bag or comforter (replacements for mover blankets) and set the cab on it and drag it around the corner.

Other wise your prone to lost parts, stripped holes, and breakage that would other wise not have happened.

I'm personally not fond of cheap PC cases...I've spilled more blood because of those things while working as a admin\tech than I ever did working as a carpenter...that includes the time I cut off part of a finger.

Hehe there is a reason those things are cheap.

Any ways do what you will with my advice...but best of luck with your project and having an Arcade Cabinet while in college is very cool.

[vuduman67]

If your still looking for opinions.....I agree 100% that a name brand motherboard is better but, I purchased a Biostar MB and CPU combo for a price that was just to good to pass up and its been in my arcade for over a year now running nonstop. Thats 24/7. I never shut it off and it never goes into sleep mode.I was so pleased with the stability of it I bought another one for the second cabinet I built and it to has been great. As for the X Arcade controller. That is what I started out with. It worked very well for the money and ease of use but if I build another upright cab I will definatly without a doubt build my control panel from scratch. I have recently swapped out the x arcade joysticks with a pair of ultramarc slikstik 360's. The x arcade joystick switches started sticking and acting flaky after about 8 months of hardcore Robotron use I really like the slikstiks configurability and precision. I do however regret not buying the restrictor plates. I started out just playing Mame games but have since expanded to some regular PC titles so I have a add on video card. Eventually you may also, it seems to be the trend. Once you get building and playing you get this desire to do more So make sure whatever motherboard you choose it has a open AGP or PCI-E slot.

[Hobo]

With regards to being able to disassemble the cabinet, that's something I would like to do. In either of the places I could put it, it needs to go up a flight of stairs and through a couple of doors. Plus transporting it to my house from college is going to be awkward. Luckily my tutor has some ideas of how I could disassemble it, but still, more ideas would help.

[ourgrace]

With regards to being able to disassemble the cabinet, that's something I would like to do. In either of the places I could put it, it needs to go up a flight of stairs and through a couple of doors. Plus transporting it to my house from college is going to be awkward. Luckily my tutor has some ideas of how I could disassemble it, but still, more ideas would help.

I'm not sure if you could do this with the cab you have, but I helped a buddy convert a cab and one of the things we did was to replace the brackets holding the sides to the front, back, top, bottom and inside panels with 2x2's. what we did was use "gorrila glue" and screws (through the 2x2's from the inside) on the side panels, then attach the panels to the 2x2's with just the screws (no Glue). this made it really easy to move it up two flights of stairs.

ourgrace

[bkenobi]

Didn't you say you were going to use a MK cabinet? Or perhaps there are two separate groups projects here.

In either case, I personally built my cabinet to be a bit modular internally so that I could reduce the weight for transportation. I have an Area51 cabinet with a 27" TV and once it's all loaded up, its FREAKING HEAVY! I rebuilt the cabinet with modularity (is that a word?) in mind. So, the glass comes off with 2 screws that hold a trim peice (currently in wood, but I will be changing to T-Nuts if/when they strip), there is a front facia peice that pops out (no hardware required), the TV lifts and slides out (a pain in the ass, but only required for big moves), the back opens and the computer can be lifted out (unplug everything first, of course), and away I go.

I originally wanted to keep it all in one peice, but once I figured out the weight of the beast, I realized my plans would have to change.

Now, if you are talking about collapsing the whole cabinet into a completely compact package, that is a different matter. My brother's friend from college built a machine that could do just that. He used wires with turn-buckles crossing from side to side and top to bottom to hold the sides together and basically set a TV and computer in place. I never saw it in person, but the pictures were pretty cool. I would definitely recomment NOT using a real cabinet if this is your goal! You will probably spend a lot longer figuring out how to take it from its current state down to a rigid but collapsable configuration.

[Prodigy]

The MK cabinet posted above is not actually the one I have. If you read the post, it says I have an Altered Beast cabinet, which looks almost identical to the MK one. We're either going to gut and refinish the one we have, or build our own from scratch.

The parts inside will be removable. It's easier to remove and work on a PC while it's completely in a case, rather than in an arcade cabinet. As far as the mobility is concerned, I don't want the cabinet to be collapsible, just enough so I can remove the hardware and be left with a much lighter wooden frame.

And with regard to Nologic's last post, we won't be disassembling the X-Arcade controls, we will simply use it as it comes, and decide whether or not to build our own later on.

[Will]

I have to be sure and get my 2 cents in here since I just built a cab recently. Although the "no case" option seems like a good idea (and I am sure for some it is), I didn't think so. I used an old case since a mediocre one is REALLY cheap. It allows me to completely remove the computer equipment for transport or trouble shooting which is really nice. I made a padded place for it on the cabinet floor and have the side and top off. It MIGHT run a few degrees cooler if I just had it mounted to the cabinet, but being able to remove it (quickly) when doing reinstalls, etc is a nice thing. Not to mention saves a lot of time mounting, etc.

Second, I agree with the other guys about getting a decent PC for this. Waiting another month to save another $200 for better parts is worth it if needed. Whether emus need dual core or not, a dual core processor makes EVERYTHING more responsive. Your virus checker and windows components won't slow down GameEx by stealing processor time. The Athlon 64 you have picked out will be good, but I promise side by side, a X2 3800 will seem faster and is only marginally more expensive. And a gig of RAM is a MUST if you want quick boot times. I agree with nologic that disabling lots of services usually ends up creating more issues that what you gain in speed. Your better option is to keep yourself in check when installing additional programs, etc. Also, set your virus checker to only do "selective" automatic scanning. That way it isn't scanning your Mame zips everytime you open a game, or mame.exe when you run it. Little things like that will make the biggest difference.

Last bit of advice, buy a good processor cooler. Get one that is silent. Nothing is more annoying to me that a PC that can be heard while your playing. The new tower style coolers keep it nice a chilled at really low fan speeds. I bought one for my server PC and it runs at 80 F with little to no noise.

Oh and the IPAC keyboard controller ROCKS. Worth every penny.

Thats all I can think of right now. Good luck! And let us know if you have anymore questions.

[bkenobi]

What windows components would slow your system down? You shouldn't have anything running other than GameEx and the current emulator/game/movie/etc in a dedicated cabinet, so you shouldn't have any problem with that. I disabled a bunch of services to speed things up, but realized (like Nologic said) it just caused errors without any appreciable increase in speed. The things that slow you down are resource hogging programs. But, you shouldn't be running anything other than GameEx and an emu (and maybe autohotkey/JoyToKey/WinGun/etc to get controls to work).

As for a virus scanner...WHY? if this is a dedicated cabinet, you won't be surfing the web. And if you do choose to, that means you dropped to windows, so you can just fire one up at that time. There is no reason to have one running AT ALL when you are just using GameEx. Just because the computer is connected to the internet, that does not mean you are at risk of contracting virsuses. I have run my main computer without any protection (beyond a router) for nearly 10 years. I have contracted one here and there doing dumb things, but if you don't use the machine for email (read Outlook or Eudora, not web mail) or surfing the web...skip it!

I do actually have on install because of an unknown file I wanted to check. If you really want a scanner, you can install one that runs as a service and can be configured to only scan incoming files automatically. Then, if you want to run a more thorough scan, you can do that manually and not have to worry about resources.

Oh, and the IPAC looks like a pretty good product. I chose to go with the GP-Wiz and would recomend it with a slight reservation. It acts as a usb gamepad (hense the "GP"). This makes it easy to connect and works with most things pretty easily. The down side is that almost every application for emulation will allow for keyboard inputs (a lot of them can be customized, too), but not every one allows for gamepads. Also, there is at least one app (ZSNES as I recall) that doesn't allow you to assign buttons from joystick 1 to player 2 buttons. The result is that I have to use JoyToKey to get everything working. A great product, though!

[Will]

Umm...okay. What Windows components could slow down GameEx? How about memory management, time syncronization, network activity, windows update checks (could turn off), and all the other OS operations you have no control over! Even when you are only running "one" program, your OS has hundreds of "programs" handling DirectX calls, hardware calls, memory management, etc. Dual core is almost always better for responsiveness. In many tasks a faster single proc will post better benchmarks, but a dual core can do it nearly as fast while doing whatever else you need in the mean time.

By getting a dual core pc, you don't have to be so anti-anti-virus anymore, since the performance hit isn't noticeable. You can't really recommend someone not run a virus scanner. I mean come on. I know I'd hate to have to reinstall my whole cabinet machine due to a virus because I thought free AVG was stealing 1% of my processor time. There are free ones, and with RAM and processors so cheap, they aren't the cycle stealers they used to be. My scanner takes about 12 megs of RAM (1.1%) and around 1% processor time (charted it over the course of a few weeks). And I have it set to only scan executable code, excluding mame and my emus.

GameEx has a built in browser support, so someone could do some browsing. I have a dedicated cabinet that I am constantly trading files with, that browses the internet, and most definitely uses a (highly tuned) virus scanner.

[Prodigy]

I've already got a pre-configured version of Windows that will install with none of the 'extra' services. The Windows folder takes less than 350MB of space and the OS only uses 42Mb of RAM. I'm going to be using this initially, and if I find any serious problems with it I'll switch to a more complete version. As for a virus scanner, I won't be using one at all. The PC will be connected to my router, but only so I can access my other computer with my music on it. I'm not worried about any viruses, because I won't be using the internet at all.