[RESOLVED] Kat5200 Input Problems

[nullPointer]

Hello everyone. This post is not so much directly related to GameEx as it is to Kat5200. Since that emulator doesn't have it's own support forum, I figured I'd turn to the greatest minds in emulation that I know of, you guys!

My latest adventures have involved configuring inputs for Kat5200. I really like this emulator (based on advice from here) and am hoping to stick with it for the purposes of Atari 5200 emulation. My issue is that after configuring buttons within the app (all of which are recognized within the emulator configuration), only some buttons are recognized within games.

My current gaming controller is a Logitech Rumblepad 2 (a DualShock style controller). Obviously the original Atari 5200 controller had a ton of buttons. In order to have valid assignments for all those buttons, one of two things must happen. I must either map a portion of the Atari 5200 number pad to the d-pad, or I must map that same portion of the number pad to directional analog stick movements. I've made similar consessions in other emulators (mapping N64 camera buttons to the right analog stick comes to mind). The trouble is that neither of these options seems to work in Kat5200 with this controller. Hereâ??s what Iâ??ve tried thus far:

Without button mapping software

• Map the 5200 Analog Stick to the Left Analog stick. Map number pad 1-4 to d-pad. Result: Analog Stick works but number pad entries are not recognized.
  
• Map 5200 Analog Stick to d-pad. Map number pad 1-4 to Left Analog Stick directions. Result d-pad works, but number pad entries are not recognized.
  

With button mapping software (Xpadder)

• If I use Auto-Detect Input within the Kat5200 configuration app, it recognizes â??normal buttonsâ?? as the Xpadder key assignments, but with the analog sticks and the d-pad it only recognizes the actual controller inputs (not the Xpadder assignments).
  
• If I manually enter the keyboard assignments for the d-pad and analog sticks within the Kat5200 configuration, those keys are not recognized in game, via the controller or the keyboard itself!? (Iâ??ve verified that Xpadder is sending the appropriate keys via notepad)
  

Iâ??m just not sure whatâ??s happening here. Here are the only possibilities I can think of (bearing in mind that these are simply my own crackpot theories).

• There may be some kind of Raw Input/DirectInput/XInput conflict happening between the controller/emulator/Xpadder. I donâ??t have a plethora of knowledge regarding this, nor do I know what input method is utilized by Kat5200.
  
• There may be a conflict between the d-pad and the emulator. The Logitech gamepad uses an 8-way d-pad, where the app is expecting 4-way digital input (for the purposes of the number pad at least). This might explain why the d-pad works for the 5200 analog stick, but not for the 5200 number pad. Still, it seems like a little finger wiggling should get something to register.
  
• Kat5200 wonâ??t allow analog input to be assigned to a digital 5200 button? Not sure on this one since technically the d-pad is digital input.
  

Has anyone else experienced anything remotely similar to this (with this emulator or any other)? Are there any clever workarounds? Do you suspect the problem is with my controller (the 8 way vs. 4 way input thing), the emulator (might not recognize analog input for digital buttons â?? even if it appears to allow it in the configuration), or some combination thereof?

Any help or advice is appreciated! Thanks!

[simbamame]

Hi, i used the Advanced config editor to map my control panel to be used in a fruit machine emulator that didnt have a configurable keys option, im not sure if you'd be able to use this but its worth a try and is truely a remarkable utility that GameEx has built it.

SM.

[bkenobi]

If I remember correctly, the Rumblepad can use either the D-Pad or left analog stick to send out the same signals to the PC depending on how you have it set up. There is a toggle on the controller to switch modes. If you don't get things working with both at the same time, you may be in the wrong mode.

[mesk]

I dont think you actually need to map all those buttons.what I mean is there are about 100 5200 games in total.and only 2 or 3 actually utilize the numerical pad.I have played almost every 5200 game,and i have not ran into a game that I actually needed those numerical pads.I use a xbox 360 contoller,without any extra software.I think only defender & maybe star raiders actually use the numeric pad.Same thing with coleco vision,the most use the numerical pads used on that system was to select difficulty & # of players.And for those I just have them mapped to the keyboard.

Not the answer you were looking for im sure,but hopefully it helps you out somewhat.

[Draco1962]

I am wondering if when he is referencing the word "digital" that he means it is looking for a numerical input - not digital in the signal sense of the word.

[nullPointer]

Hi guys. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! I’m getting ready to take a 4 day trip so I haven’t had a chance to get back around to testing this out, but I’ll definitely try out your suggestions.

Hi, i used the Advanced config editor to map my control panel to be used in a fruit machine emulator that didnt have a configurable keys option

I always forget about the native controller mapping functionality in GameEx. I’ll definitely check this out (along with the Logitech Profiling software) to see whether it yields results differently than Xpadder.

There is a toggle on the controller to switch modes. If you don't get things working with both at the same time, you may be in the wrong mode.

This has definitely thrown me for a loop a few times. I’ll get done configuring my controller in an emulator only to realize that I had the analog/digital mode turned on, and need to go back to reverse the mapping! This does in fact yield some strange results within Kat5200. Typically the mode button simply reverses the functionality of the d-pad and left analog stick, but does not lock out one or the other. I think this was an attempt to appease those diehards who prefer the layout of the Xbox controller to the DualShock style (albeit a somewhat half hearted measure). The weird part is that in Kat5200 it seems to be doing exactly as you describe; either the d-pad or the left analog stick works but not both at the same time (and neither seems to work for number pad entries).

I dont think you actually need to map all those buttons.what I mean is there are about 100 5200 games in total.and only 2 or 3 actually utilize the numerical pad.

. . .

Not the answer you were looking for im sure,but hopefully it helps you out somewhat.

Actually I’m starting to think the same thing. Most games that I would actually play on the 5200 don’t use the number pad in any significant fashion, and ultimately I only need to trim 4 number pad buttons from my mapping anyway. After looking at several Atari 5200 controller overlays, it looks like very few games utilize the numbers 4 – 9 on the number pad. Those that do, I could simply filter from my list. In the event that there’s a number pad based game that I simply can’t live without, I can always give Atari800 a whirl. (As an aside, I have to admit to a certain curiosity regarding Rescue on Fractalus by LucasFilm Games (overlay), but attempting to map all those numpad keys in a way that made sense would probably be a nightmare). In all honesty, I’m not sure it’s worth it to create a new emulator group simply to accommodate the 5200.

Edit: Draco beat me to the punch while submitting this reply

I am wondering if when he is referencing the word "digital" that he means it is looking for a numerical input - not digital in the signal sense of the word.

That's sort of the crux of my issue. I am referring to a digital signal rather than input as numeric digits. I can assign Atari number pad entries to any digital button on the controller and have them work (shoulder buttons, triangle, square, L3, R3, etc.). I can't get Atari number pad entries to work in game when mapped to either the d-pad or analog sticks (although they are recognized as valid mappings within the emulator settings). The weird part is that the d-pad and analog sticks work just fine for directional movements in game. This behavior occurs both with and without controller mapping software (or at least with Xpadder).

Thanks for all your suggestions guys! Sorry for the (incredibly) long post! I’ll report back if I have a sudden breakthrough in the controller mapping department.

[Draco1962]

Not sure how to proceed with this one to be honest. Rescue on Fractalus (the hack version is known as Behind Jaggi Lines for the 8-bit Atari systems) was a great game and I spent many hours playing and being eaten by the alien pretending to be a stranded astronaut!

[nullPointer]

Just wanted to post a quick update to this issue. I never could get Kat5200 to recognize analog control input (i.e. analog sticks) as valid numeric key entries (i.e. the numeric pad on the Atari 5200 controller) while in game. The part that I kept getting hung up on is that the same problem was occurring with the d-pad on my controller even though it should ostensibly be recognized as digital input.

After thinking about it, I realized that I could use an input set selector in Xpadder to assign all the necessary numeric pad keys to purely digital controller buttons. Numeric entries 1-4 are assigned to shoulder buttons for input set 1 in Xpadder. When I hold down on the right analog stick (the set selector input I'm using), the shoulder buttons shift to numeric pad entries for 5-8 (input set 2). The other more commonly used numeric pad entries are assigned to other digital buttons on the controller.

The weird part, is that this solution still seems to be hit or miss depending on the game (i.e. some numeric pad entries still aren't recognized for certain games - Frogger, I'm looking at you). Now I'm wondering whether the emulator is accurately emulating bugs that were present in the original carts? Either that or this emulator just doesn't get along with my controller. I dunno.

At any rate, I'm mostly pleased with this solution. I'm going to go ahead and mark this as [RESOLVED]. Thanks everyone for all your input!