Ultrastick/IPAC mixed control problem

[Yesod]

Hi all,

I have Ultrasticks that control my cabinet directions and IPACs that control the buttons.

I can't find the way to control GameEx properly using this particular combination of hardware.

The problem is the directions are mapped to joystick (and it works, I can navigate up/down/left/right using the ultrasticks), while the actions are mapped to the keyboard (the IPAC). This makes impossible to use the shift paging button in combination with the stick movements, because you can not remap a joystick button (I have no joystick buttons) to my IPAC configuration. I'd like to use, for instance, the LControl key as the paging key in combination with the joystick directions. Is that possible?

[shaunopp]

Hi all,

I have Ultrasticks that control my cabinet directions and IPACs that control the buttons.

I can't find the way to control GameEx properly using this particular combination of hardware.

The problem is the directions are mapped to joystick (and it works, I can navigate up/down/left/right using the ultrasticks), while the actions are mapped to the keyboard (the IPAC). This makes impossible to use the shift paging button in combination with the stick movements, because you can not remap a joystick button (I have no joystick buttons) to my IPAC configuration. I'd like to use, for instance, the LControl key as the paging key in combination with the joystick directions. Is that possible?

Definitely doable, I have it setup that way on mine with UltaStiks and a MiniPac.

If you look under the GameEx Setup Wizard there's a place to configure custom controls for keyboard. Make sure those options are turned on for the Keyboard and Joystick. You can map keyboard keys within the Gamex Setup Wizard under Keyboard controls.

GameEx doesn't seem to like control type buttons for navigation. Unfortunately, by default the Mame P1 Button1, Button2, Button3, are L.Control etc. I just remapped mine to 3 letters instead and then changed them to correspond in Mame. I assigned those letter to Select, Back and Shift Paging for button 1, 2, 3 respectively in the Setup Wizard. If you want to add this functionality to your Player 2 buttons as well you'll need to go in the Configuration Wizard under Input Controls and edit the Custom Keyboard settings there where you can do multiples.

[Yesod]

If you look under the GameEx Setup Wizard there's a place to configure custom controls for keyboard. Make sure those options are turned on for the Keyboard and Joystick. You can map keyboard keys within the Gamex Setup Wizard under Keyboard controls.

Does not work, or I'm doing something wrong.

Before writing here my question, I tried to use the Z key, mapped to an IPAC button, as the shift paging key.

I mapped all the keys to my buttons using the Wizard, and they worked fine, except when trying to use the shift key in combination with the stick.

So, when I move my Ultrastick down pressing that button (the Z key in the keyboard, mapped to an IPAC button), nothing happens, I just navigate the game list name by name. If I want page by page navigation, I have to use the arrow keys in a keyboard for the Z key to work.

So, I supposed you can not mix the stick control with a shift key. Either you have to use a joystick button as the shift button, or use the arrow keys for the shift key to work.

Am I correct? If not, what am I doing wrong?

[Tempest]

Definitely doable, I have it setup that way on mine with UltaStiks and a MiniPac.

If you look under the GameEx Setup Wizard there's a place to configure custom controls for keyboard. Make sure those options are turned on for the Keyboard and Joystick. You can map keyboard keys within the Gamex Setup Wizard under Keyboard controls.

GameEx doesn't seem to like control type buttons for navigation. Unfortunately, by default the Mame P1 Button1, Button2, Button3, are L.Control etc. I just remapped mine to 3 letters instead and then changed them to correspond in Mame. I assigned those letter to Select, Back and Shift Paging for button 1, 2, 3 respectively in the Setup Wizard. If you want to add this functionality to your Player 2 buttons as well you'll need to go in the Configuration Wizard under Input Controls and edit the Custom Keyboard settings there where you can do multiples.

I'm not sure that this answered the question. (Don't look at me, I don't know the answer )

Yesod was wondering if it is possible to use the joystick to Page up/down, and Alpha up/down.

You talked about key mapping, but didn't mention anything about the joystick. I'm not picking on you , but I have the same set-up, and the same problem as Yesod. I am using ultrastick with a USB connection, and I am wondering if that is the difference. Are you using the analog outputs tied to your minipac? If not, could you elaborate on how you got your joystick to work?

Thanks!

[shaunopp]

Hey Tempest,

No problem, sorry for the late reply, I missed Yesod's response. Here's a more step by step instruction.

1. You need to go into the GameEx Setup Wizard and Select Custom-->Next-->check Keyboard Input & Joystick Input -->Next

2. The Keyboard Input page is for mapping keys to perform GameEx actions.

3. The Joystick Input page is for mapping Joysticks (and their buttons) to perform GameEx actions.

4. Don't get confused here, if you have your joystick directions setup as keystrokes (as in the case of a regular ipac) you set the buttons under Keyboard Input. Joystick Input is for USB Game Controller devices only. Be sure you have Enable Custom Keyboard/Joystick set to Yes on each of those pages and avoid using keys like Shift,Ctrl,Alt etc. for GameEx control

5. Depending on how you have your ipac/mini-pac/u360/joysticks etc. setup you may need to use one or both of these. You can press the '...' to the right each action and then press the control you wish to map to it or type it in directly.

6. If nothing's happening double check that your button is mapped correctly and set to the corresponding key you've set in GameEx. Go into WinIpac or a text editor and press the button to make sure it types a 'z' or whatever you've mapped to it and set in GameEx. In the case of a Joystick (or U360) go into the Windows Game Controller control panel and make sure it shows up.

7. Remember you have to hold down the Alpha Paging key/button down while you press left/right/up/down. Usually it should be mapped so if you hold down the Alpha paging key+right/left it will jump forward and back alphabetically and pressing Alpha key+up/down will page up/down.

On my cab I have my U360's hooked up via USB and my 6 buttons hooked up with the optional wiring harness. This is called Input Mode. Since it's seen as a USB Game Controller the GameEx controls are mapped under Joystick Input. I have Select mapped to Button 0, Back to Button 1 and Alpha to Button 2, the 3 top buttons for player 1. If you had a regular Ipac or were using a U360 in output mode (going back to the mini-pac and mapping the buttons as keystrokes) you'd need to map the keys appropriately on the Keyboard Input page to the appropriate keys.

Hope that helps and doesn't make it more confusing. It's actually harder to explain than to do but will definitely work. Let me know if you have further ??'s

[Tempest]

Shaunopp,

I understand what you are saying, but I have my joystick/buttons hooked up differently.

I bought a minipac to interface my trackball, and have my buttons hooked to the minipac as well.

I just plugged the jostick into the USB, without using the input/output harness at all.

I have enabled "use joystick/gamepad" in the setup wizard, and the joystick does work to navigate the menus. When I go to "joystick input" in the setup wizard, I see where I could program my buttons if I had input mode selected on my Ultrastik, but I don't see a way to enter the joystick directions for Alpha/Paging.

I'm assuming that I would hold down a key and move the joystick to enable paging.

I'm probably (usually) missing something.

[bkenobi]

Yup, you are

To use alpha/paging, you use the button + a direction. So say button 4 is your paging button.

Page Up: button 4 + Up

Page Down: Button 4 + Down

Alpha Up: Button 4 + Right

Alpha Down: Button 4 + Left

NOTE - I might have mixed up alpha and paging as I'm not in front of GameEx or my cab.

[shaunopp]

I understand what you are saying, but I have my joystick/buttons hooked up differently.

I bought a minipac to interface my trackball, and have my buttons hooked to the minipac as well.

I just plugged the jostick into the USB, without using the input/output harness at all.

I have enabled "use joystick/gamepad" in the setup wizard, and the joystick does work to navigate the menus. When I go to "joystick input" in the setup wizard, I see where I could program my buttons if I had input mode selected on my Ultrastik, but I don't see a way to enter the joystick directions for Alpha/Paging.

I'm assuming that I would hold down a key and move the joystick to enable paging.

I'm probably (usually) missing something.

Ok, I now have a better understanding of how you have your UltraStiks hooked up and no, you're not missing anything... but unfortunately I have some bad news. Apparently GameEx won't let you mix and match between Keyboard Input and Joystick Input when it comes to Alpha Paging. I have confirmed this mixing/matching doesn't work on my cab. For example, you can't press the Keyboard Input Alpha Key and then press a Game Controller Joystick left/right and expect it to Alpha Page. You either have to have your joystick and buttons as Game Controllers or as Keystrokes to use them in tandem with Alpha Paging.

So, here's your choices:

• Wire your U360 Buttons as Game Controller buttons
  
• Wire your U360 Joystick as keystrokes
  
• Use a program like Xpadder to map keys to your U360
  
• Use the Keyboard for Alpha Paging navigation (you should still be able to map Select, Back & Home to buttons)
  
• Beg Tom to change the behaviour in GameEx if it's even possible
  

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but at least now you know you're not crazy and have some options to proceed.

[bkenobi]

Ahhh, I see the problem. Fortunately there is an easy solution. Just do option 3 in shaunopp's list. Since GameEx doesn't need analog inputs, using XPadder for GameEx only will change the joystick commands to keyboard input that matches your IPAC's keyboard input. In the long run, it would be nice if it could be mixed and matched, but the XPadder route should work just fine and it's by far the easiest thing you can do right now.

[Wombat]

It appears I have a very similar setup to Yesod... two Ultimarc 360's USB connected so that they could be software configurable on the fly and a trackball/spinner attached to an Optipac further joined to an IPAC to send keypresses.

I stayed away from hooking the joystick harness up as I was wary (from forum reading before the event) of possibly bad joystick support in certain emulators/other programs. Also, my beautiful wiring job with quick-connects and daisy chaining had me flummoxed as to how I'd readily join the harness and IPAC buttons together (I need to go and find where the heck I've put them to revisit what it actually looks like) without soldering or twisted wires.

So, for now, I'll go the suggested Xpadder route (I'm assuming I can just load/remap the joystick for GameEx use and unload whilst playing the game yet have it active again on exit) but I'd like to put in a plaintive vote for Tom to consider a future edition permitted a combination of joystick input (for navigation and possibly analog-accelerated for fast scrolling) with the keyboard presses to enable the paging/alpha paging, back, home, select etc. Until then I'll use a combination of keyboard and mouse and disable the joysticks.

And whilst I'll eventually probably remap ("permanently" as well as dynamically based on emulator/game) the IPAC to all alpha keys and change MAME etc. to suit that instead, it probably wouldn't hurt to allow the entering of the "standard" Left CTRL, Left Alt etc. to accomodate the new user (although I'd love to know why it technically can't be done...at least I couldn't get them to work)

And, to finish with a dumber question, if the two were wired together and the first "fire" button pressed, wouldn't both a joystick button 1 (via USB) and a keypress (via IPAC PS/2) be returned to the program? Whilst MAME could probably handle/ignore it I'd bet some programs wouldn't be so readily acceptable of extraneous input...

[Wombat]

I thought a little more about this overnight. Another reason for not connecting the joystick to the buttons/encoder is that in that case the Ultimarc 360 shifts into "output" mode... this means it can no longer function as an analog stick.

The whole idea of connecting the buttons to the IPAC was so that, if for any reason the emulator or program will not allow remapping inside the program then I could get around that by dynamically changing the IPAC key assignments before loading the program (and then changing them back on exit). Buttons wired up to the joystick (before knowing the existence of Xpadder) could not similar be changed if the program doesn't acknowledge a joystick at all (and there are keyboard only "button" programs out there).

I'm also wary of joystick to keyboard programs just in case they fall by the wayside... I think I read somewhere that a change in input direction made Joy2Key inoperable and now the future development of Xpadder may be under scrutiny given the coder is contemplating selling everything lock, stock and barrel (or is having a "why the hell am I doing this?" moment which I can sympathise with) and may not release the source code for other people to pick up.

[Wombat]

So... how do I start Xpadder to remap my joystick to keys so that I can use it in GameEx navigation yet, once I start to load a game have it either completely unload itself so that it doesn't continue doing its thing whilst in the game OR load in a different mapping depending on the emulator/game/program?

Of course, once I exit the program I need the GameEx mapping to "resurrect" itself and again be in control of navigation.

[bkenobi]

Make it simple on yourself. What would you do if the only software you had to choose from was what's available today? In other words, assume that no software were going to go through an further development. If that were the case, what would you do? I would think XPadder would be an excellent choice for most things. MAME should be able to use the joystick as it is or as a digital stick, so it isn't really a problem either.

Things will always change down the road, but if you wait to see where they end up, you will never get anywhere because the destination is never set...

[Elfo]

I know spending more money is not the preferred solution, but would one of these work in lieu of the IPAC/MINIPAC?

GP-Wiz

They essentially translate your pushbuttons into gamepad buttons with a USB connection, instead of the standard keyboard signals.

[Tempest]

I'm thinking another option would be to use the harness as input mode. Then your buttons would be seen as joystick buttons. Even if you can't wire all of your buttons to your U360, you could leave some of them on the Ipac. And (as I seem to keep saying) Ultimarc has new firmware to alow for "shifted" keys with the U360 now.

Please check my signature for more information....

[bkenobi]

The IPAC/MiniPAC work as keyboard encoder. The GP-Wiz works as a game pad emulator (hence the 'GP'). These work interchangeably in practice, but there are some differences that make some tasks easier with one over the other. If you want a keyboard encoder, RandyT also makes the KeyWiz. I won't get into Pros/Cons of either since that's easily answered by going to either Ultimarc or GroovyGameGear and looking around (half the fun!).

[Tempest]

I thought a little more about this overnight. Another reason for not connecting the joystick to the buttons/encoder is that in that case the Ultimarc 360 shifts into "output" mode... this means it can no longer function as an analog stick.

The whole idea of connecting the buttons to the IPAC was so that, if for any reason the emulator or program will not allow remapping inside the program then I could get around that by dynamically changing the IPAC key assignments before loading the program (and then changing them back on exit). Buttons wired up to the joystick (before knowing the existence of Xpadder) could not similar be changed if the program doesn't acknowledge a joystick at all (and there are keyboard only "button" programs out there).

I'm also wary of joystick to keyboard programs just in case they fall by the wayside... I think I read somewhere that a change in input direction made Joy2Key inoperable and now the future development of Xpadder may be under scrutiny given the coder is contemplating selling everything lock, stock and barrel (or is having a "why the hell am I doing this?" moment which I can sympathise with) and may not release the source code for other people to pick up.

I haven't tried it, but according to ultimarc You can use both the USB, and the output mode at the same time:

http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_inst.html

[Wombat]

Well... having ordered an extra U360 joystick harness last night I finally caved in and rewired my main player action buttons to be attached to the Ultimarc 360s instead of running as keys through the IPAC. (I guess I'll have to investigate Xappder and the like now for when I DO need keys)

So, I decided to swicth my GameEx navigation away from a custom keyset and instead just use the joystick/button combos so I can finally use the page/alpha shift button in combination with the joystick.

This works okay.

I did notice however theat there was no HOME= assignment in the joystick section (unlike the keyboard section) of the file I had. Fair enough... I coded an assignment in and set it to an appropriate button number assignment.

However, whilst select, prev, shift, etc. al work fine the home key (previously working fine when navigation was solely by IPAC) refuses to be recognised. Que? Is home=2 not recognised in this section?... Pressing "prev" repeatedly when used to quickly getting back to the base page with the home key is slightly annoying.

[Tom Speirs]

Well... having ordered an extra U360 joystick harness last night I finally caved in and rewired my main player action buttons to be attached to the Ultimarc 360s instead of running as keys through the IPAC. (I guess I'll have to investigate Xappder and the like now for when I DO need keys)

So, I decided to swicth my GameEx navigation away from a custom keyset and instead just use the joystick/button combos so I can finally use the page/alpha shift button in combination with the joystick.

This works okay.

I did notice however theat there was no HOME= assignment in the joystick section (unlike the keyboard section) of the file I had. Fair enough... I coded an assignment in and set it to an appropriate button number assignment.

However, whilst select, prev, shift, etc. al work fine the home key (previously working fine when navigation was solely by IPAC) refuses to be recognised. Que? Is home=2 not recognised in this section?... Pressing "prev" repeatedly when used to quickly getting back to the base page with the home key is slightly annoying.

Home is not an option for joysticks, but you should just be able to press shift1 and shift2 together.

[Wombat]

Home is not an option for joysticks, but you should just be able to press shift1 and shift2 together.

Hey... I didn't know that both shifts together did that... I'll try that tonight.

Although, for ease of design and communicating to other people who use my machine, is there any techincal reason why "home" couldn't be incorporated for joysticks?

Each of my joysticks now have 8 buttons attached to them (and could conceivably have 15 if I use the Ultimarc 360's joystick's "shift" button feature) so it seems a shame to have some sitting there idle.

[bkenobi]

You could use XPadder or an AHK script to remap shift1 + shift2 to button 5 on your joystick if you like.