Banning from Xbox Live if watching a legit backup movie?

[hansolo77]

Hey guys. I realize we don't really talk about backup stuff here, but this isn't game related. My brother has recently married and his wife has 2 kids ages 7 and 11. They're really rough with stuff, and prone to break things. As a wedding gift, she bought him a bunch of BluRay movies that he'd love to watch. Only problem is that their kids have actually scratched and broken a bunch of disks and he's afraid to even open the boxes. I told him about making backups of the movies, that it's completely legal for personal use. The "fear factor" he's having now though is that he doesn't have a standalone BluRay player, just his XBox One. Since this was a fairly expensive purchase, he's afraid to make a backup and watch it on it for fear his account will be banned. I've never heard of such a thing happening, but with Microsoft and the world crunching down on piracy I thought I'd ask what the people here feel about it. In this particular case, where he has a legit copy made simply for protective purposes, would Microsoft ban his Live account? Would he be able to argue and fight their rulings if something like that were to happen? Ideally he needs just go buy a BluRay player, but until then, would this be something safe for him to do? Please remember, I'm talking about BluRay's, not games.

[Draco1962]

Considering that decent standalone Blu Ray players (with WiFi and/or wired connections)can be had for under $70, I would suggest that route. He would easily spend more on most decent backup programs for the format.

Just keep in mind that regardless of games or videos, forum rules apply equally.

[nullPointer]

Does (or can) Xbox One act as a DLNA client? If so, I would go that route, although I don't know how technically inclined your brother is. Before converting fully to HTPC I used my PS3 primarily as a DLNA client, and that's what we watched all our movies on. It worked really well for everything except for discs that couldn't be backed up due to more rigid copy protection, but in those cases it was the backup process itself that failed, not the DLNA client/server.

Having said all of that, I'd be surprised if Xbox implemented this sort of policing. AFAIK nothing of the sort exists in Windows, so it would be unusual (IMO) for them to expend resources to implement this sort of thing for Xbox. Not saying it couldn't happen, I'd just be surprised if it did.

[RIP-Felix]

Why not just make the backup and save it as what it's intended for - a backup? In other words, just watch your original copy on your X-Bone. The backup will always be there if needed, that's the idea right? Besides if it's protected under the fair use law then Microsoft can't ban people for watching their own movie. That would be a pretty alienating move for a product targeting the teen to young adult demographic, the demographic most likely to be knowledgeable about this kind of thing.

From what little I know on the subject, isn't it considered a legal grey area? Basically your brother isn't profiting from the copy, he's just hedging his investment (given his kids affinity for sandpaper and shiny surfaces ). Honestly, it seems crazy to even have to worry about this.

Technology has made digital media prolific and uncontainable, it's pandora's box. Digital rights are still too restrictive, for example I bought some music from Musicmatch Jukebox back in 2004. Now I can't play these songs because the company doesn't exist anymore and it tries to load a webpage to restore the digital rights but the link no longer exists. I feel like I was the one stolen from. It's easier and more reliable to simply rip my physical CD to MP3, no digital rights to worry about loosing, just a file that will always work. Movies are Basicly, the same thing, right? I mean, a tablet doesn't have a CD or DVD player, the only way you can watch your DVD's or CD's is If you Rip and copy the files to the device. Did you commit a crime worthy of 5 years in prison? This is the type of problem that ownership and copyright protection presents. Since it's still ambiguous what is and isn't fair use with the media you legally obtain, it's hard to know right from wrong, especially as the way we consume entertainment changes (Walkmann --> I-pod --> I-phone --> I-pad --> Virtual reality?)

That brings up a new point - Virtual reality. It is illegal to hold a public viewing of a movie without the permission of the copyright holder. What about inviting your friend over to your house to watch a movie? That's considered fair use. What if you have a lot of friends over and a big house with a theater? Again, that's fair use right? Well, maybe that's pushing it a bit, depending on how many "friends" were talking about and the frequency of these "get togethers." You can see how this escalates out of control. As technology changes the old law becomes inadequate to uphold the purpose for which it was enacted. What about inviting your Facebook friends to a virtual movie viewing in the Occulus Rift virtual theater? What about a virtual house with a virtual home theater system containing uploads of all the movies in your combined digital collections, accessible to everyone in the virtual home arrangement (maybe my whole family, separated by thousands of miles geographically, but not virtually)? It would be a cool idea, but is it legal? How many friends/Family is considered fair? 10? 50? 10,000? The entire human race, since we're all related anyway? Ambiguous isn't it? Who's ultimately responsible, the users or Oculus for providing the platform?

[MNMax21]

Yes, Xbox One does work as a DLNA for a server with videos stored on it. I use it. Only down side, the file selecting area only shows a thumbnail image.

[hansolo77]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll tell him what you've all said. I agree it's a gray area. In theory, you should be allowed to make an infinite number of backups of things you legally acquire for your own personal use. In practice though, whose to say. Like I said, I've never heard of Microsoft or Sony actually banning an online account for doing this, but I guess it would be within there power nevertheless. I suppose it's just going to have to come down to how trustworthy he feels about the company, and whether or not the risk is worth the gains.

[Adultery]

It's actually not a gray area at all, if you bypass the copy protection or DRM, it's illegal if you're making a "backup" of anything. Even if it's one you own. The law is pretty clear on that.

I would guess most, if not all, store bought bluray movies have copy protection, or software wouldn't exist to bypass it.

So the sad part of your story is that he is breaking the law by even making a backup in the first place. Wil you get prosecuted? Probably not. But you're still hacking past protected/encrypted material, and that's illegal.

Think of it like this: If you hacked your bank security to look at your checking account, you still broke the law. Sure, it's your money, but you had to hack through security to get there.

/end my 2c

[Draco1962]

Hence my suggestion to buy a Bluray player. Then you can play backups without fear of jacking up your Xbox access.

[hansolo77]

I've not had any issues backing up BluRay's though...  I do it for the reason of longevity of my discs as well.  A lot of my stuff comes in collector's boxes, and if I want to watch them I'm always risking damage to the box or scratching the discs.  I don't recall there being any copy protection on them, they're just HUGE (50gb) and need to be shrunk down to a more manageable size to make backing up cost effective.  Maybe they're encrypted and unreadable in a non-standard BluRay drive.. but for me, I just pop them in my BluRay burner on the computer and without any special tools I can access the files automatically.  I think there are JAVA protections that prevent it from running if certain criteria aren't met.. and I do recall reading something about the Online functionality of BluRay discs that are burns don't work.  But so far, I've not encountered any issues, which is why I suggested it to him.  He told me he's still not going to risk it until he knows for sure.  He doesn't want to risk the expensive investment.