WHS v1 Alternative

[hansolo77]

Microsoft has officially announced that as of April 1st, 2014, the first version of WHS will no longer be supported. This is such a great tragedy for me as I'm an avid user of this OS, and refused to upgrade. See, WHS v1 had a drive pooling feature which allowed you to simply add another drive to your system and it would automatically start using it as needed, without the need to do any major rebuilding of the file structure. The benefit of this also meant that you didn't need to rebuild any RAID arrays, and you could add any old drive (it didn't have to be identical in make/model/capacity. When the new WHS 2011 version came out, they removed the drive pooling features, and put the responsibility of drive management back into the hands of the user. I wanted to upgrade so I could use the new architecture and .NET features, but the drive pool was mandatory for me. So I never upgraded. Now that the v1 of WHS is no longer going to be supported, it's running the same course as Windows XP. So I'm looking for new alternatives..

Here's what I'm ultimately looking for:

• Drive Pooling to add or upgrade drives as needed without needing to know how to use RAID
• Folder Duplication (this is another part of drive pooling that allowed seamless redundant backup of your files)
• Automated client backups
• Capabilities to run uTorrent (my preferred torrent client, but others will probably work just as well)
• Prefer to be in a Windows environment since I'm familiar with it and can Remote Desktop into it for management purposes

And the kill-all / end-all is the ability to do this install/upgrade to the alternative WITHOUT losing any of my data. I have 20 years of photos backed up between myself and my dad, plus his new wife's photos going back even farther. We can't lose this data, and there is over 3TB stored amongst the 11 drives (~13TB) in my pool. It's not cost effective to go out and buy an external 3+TB drive to copy this stuff over for the simple necessity to upgrade.

So yeah, any ideas? Anybody else out there run into any similar situations who can provide me some help or suggestions based on their own experience?

[stigzler]

What a coinkydoink!

I'm just in the middle of upgrading my MS EX495 from V1 to 2011! Disk + debug cable ordered - awaiting arrival....

From my (limited) reading, Hans, I think you can use "DriveBender" and "StableBitPool" (or something) to do all the redundancy malarky. Think also read that if use these, then can use 4TB drives in your server

Have upgraded the CPU without too much fuss. However, single 4Gb Ram stick all coming out around £90! Think I might wait to see how the OS install goes first!

Might be some useful stuff here:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=35

[nullPointer]

I'm still in the process of dipping my toes into Windows 8, but I do know that MS replaced the older Drive Extender functionality with the newly rechristened Storage Spaces technology. It's a different name but seems to be pretty much the same deal. Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss type of deal.

What's even better is that Storage Spaces is a standard feature even in desktop versions of Windows 8 (which I believe would handily meet all your listed criteria as well). What I don't know is how easy it would be to migrate data from one to the other, but I think you're going to be facing that difficulty with what ever upgrade option you choose

[stigzler]

Yerp - looking this way... WHS 2003 (Win XP based) had Drive Extender.

WHS 2011 (Win 7 based) had... errr nothing!! However, Stablebit Drivepool looks good + well lauded - $20

WHS 2012 (Win 8 based) seems to have possibly re-introduced DE type functionality. However - think this is quite expensive. Also, i spose it depends on what kinda hardware you're gonna run your new OS on. Think my aging EX495 would pop a cork on 2012 upwards!

[Adultery]

Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss type of deal.

I hope you were thinking of The Who when you said that, because immediately after reading it I had to put my Decca version of Who's Next on the turntable. :-)

/me end hijacking

[hansolo77]

My home server is a custom built pc. Its not fast, didn't really need it to be. It has a Celeron 420 cpu and only like 2gb memory. I don't know if it's capable of running anything newer, like Windows 7/8 that you mentioned. I have 11 HDD's at the moment, 4 internal, 5 via a hotswap bay, and 2 internal that are just kinda sitting inside the case not mounted anywhere. My biggest concern about upgrading is just that lack of support. Plus the original WHS is getting kinda old. It's always a good thing to start clean, format/repartition and have a nice clean uncluttered system. If a migration to a newer OS is going to require upgrading the base components (mobo/cpu/ram) to make it functional, I might just have to live with this setup I have now.

[Draco1962]

Windows Home Server 2011 (Last Version of WHS by MS 12/31/13 last retail availability, although still available to OEMs)

Windows 7 Requirements

Windows 8.1 Requirements

Both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 have compatibility checkers (Upgrade Assistant) you can run to see what in your system is and is not supported. I would recommend Win 8.1 if you can swing it and your system supports it. You can purchase Media Center as a separate add-on if so inclined. At least it supports the storage spaces as null indicated.

[Les73gtx]

I was in the same boat as you hansolo77, I was still holing onto the WHS ver1 as I loved the drive pool feature.

A month ago I had my two year old push the battery backup supply "pretty blue" button and crashed the system hard. All the data I had backups for so no loss there, but the OS was toast with no way to recover and save data.

So my search began for a replacement. I also used my server for MyMovies database and media extenders connected to it to serve movies to all tv's in the house.

I did two things .. I spent the money on a Netgear ReadyNAS 4 bay bare unit and populated it with 4-4tb drives .... on sale it was $800 total ... that was money well spent as I have had nothing but good experience with it so far. Loads of free apps and features and easy to use. They even have a dropbox like photo sharing app that is rather slick.

So after that I was wondering what to do with the old hardware I had in the WHS case. Well after doing some more research I downloaded FreeNAS. I had uaed that software years ago and was not impressed and so I built the WHS ver1 unit. I was amazed at how well FreeNAS has advanced it does everything so well that now I regret spending that money on the ReadyNAS.

I have 8tb on the FreeNAS and 12tb on the ReadyNAS both using a drive pooling raid5 hybrid file structure (one calls it XRAID and the other calls it something very simular)

I think that FreeNAS has more apps available for it but it seems that the forums for FreeNAS are very technical and very programmer specific. So it was hard for me to get it up and running without a few errors. The Netgear ReadyNAS unit is very simple and easy to use and a bit on the entry level basic side.

So there you go for a couple of ideas that I was forced into thanks to MS and my son .. lol

[hansolo77]

I've heard of FreeNAS. Does it run in Windows like a utility, or is it like it's own OS?

[nullPointer]

I believe it has its own OS based on Linux that you install in the form of a running image (actually a quick search revealed that it's built off of BSD). You interact with it via web interface in much the same way you might interact with your router settings (or any other host of devices with web interfaces).

Looks like Engadget has a decent write-up on installation and configuration.

[hansolo77]

Ew... I don't know anything about Linux. I want to learn, but I've been involved with Windows for sooo long, it's to high a chore/task for me. I remember trying to install MythTV years ago, before Microsoft invented their Media Center. That was where I discovered how much there is I DON'T know about it. Is Microsoft calling it quits on the Home Server brand of software altogether, or is it just the original 2003 (Version 1)? Do any other OS's, such as just straight up Windows Server do similar?

[Draco1962]

I am not too sure about using Server 2008 or 2012 in lieu of WHS as my exposure is very basic at best. I ran a Server 2003 setup as a basic file server for a while (gave up the ghost last November) but that is about it. If the Ars Techincal article is correct, WHS is history.

[Tempest]

I just started building an unraid server. No problems at all getting everything going just by reading the tutorials on the forums. Currently in the process of moving data > Preclear the next drive > Move data > repeat.

There is a license required for more than three drives though. If you don't want to buy a license, definitely consider FreeNAS.

[Les73gtx]

You don't need to know anything about Linux to run the latest FreeNAS. Think of it as a new piece of software that you get to play with. I have not seen or used anything inside FreeNAS that screams Linux as they has it very streamlined. It is a complete OS of sorts and you do access it over you lan from another computer. Very easy and hey if you don't like it your out nothing but a afternoon of time. Go to the official website and read about it. You will love the "drive pool" storage management system that is in place.

[hansolo77]

Yeah, I just have a lot of data that would need to be backed up on an additional drive prior to formatting and installing a new OS, which I don't have. My setup right not just WORKS. There's nothing wrong with it. I hate being pressured into getting into some new software, etc, simply because Microsoft doesn't feel it's product was popular or mainstream enough for them. I hate that Microsoft pressures you into BUYING a software, then just up and call it quits. Of all versions of Windows, the WHS v1 was the only one I was excited enough about to actually want to install. It's a real crummy business practice to sell something and call it quits later. I feel everybody's pain with Windows XP.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Adultery
Removed some iffy verbiage. ;)

[Adultery]

Please watch your wording Han.

[stigzler]

Yes - terrible use of "crummy" - slang.

Agreed Hans about M$ - and shame cos there were a lot of good bits to WHS1....until you got a sticky disk (or 2 in one go in my case!). I have a feeling they won't give up on the home server market... it'll just get bigger and bigger as people's tech catches up and people get fed up of files spread everywhere (tablets, pcs, phones etc)

[Adultery]

+1 for FreeNas, FWIW. :-)

[hansolo77]

For file hosting, I guess anything would do. FreeNAS, etc. But I really need something to be able to remote desktop with to do things like monitor the hard drives (mine have a good life, then seem to fail unexpectedly...), run uTorrent, offer website services, have a built in anti-virus solution, etc. I'm sure there's plugins and stuff to give me what I'd want with FreeNAS. My biggest hurdle though, as I said before, would be the temporary relocation of all the current storage to a temporary medium while the new OS and drives were re-prepared. Unfortunately, my TOTAL storage being used (before the duplication) is over 5tb, and I can't afford to just go out and buy (if they even make them) a 5tb drive. I could break it up into smaller sections (like music on one drive, photos on another) but even that won't work where the system will require an additional drive or 2 or 3 to be installed simply to copy things off the current storage configuration.

[stigzler]

Read up a bit on WHS 2011 + Stablebit. I'm sure you can just plug n play drives from yer 'old' whs1.

Wonder if it's a task of turning off duplication then removing drives (removed drives still have the files on them in hidden folder). WHS1 would then shuffle round your files to stay on drives left in server. Then install WHS2011 and just plug n play your pool drives into this install. If it goes belly up - you'll still have the files on the removed drives.

This forum has been helpful for me (eventually!):

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/

[Les73gtx]

Sales on drives at newegg every other day the latest I looked at was 142 for a 4tb drive. Just saying

[hansolo77]

Yeah I saw that. My problem is that it's an old MOBO and it's max capacity for for SATA drives is 1tb. My only option is external via USB, and those puppies get expensive!

[stigzler]

Thought I'd update, Hans. Just finished updating my MediaSmart EX495 to WHS 2011. Summary: Definitely do it!

WHS 2011 is solid + runs like a dream. Was having probs with V1 + disks, and not as hard as I thought. It did take a little expense and time, but overall very worth it. Here's what you'd definitely need:

1x copy of WHS 2011 @ around $40

Either:

a) 8Gb usb stick (necessary for 'headless installation', optional if with debug board)

USB CD/DVD drive (if not using usb method)

And that's it!

However, what can make your life easier:

a) Debug board - allows you to plug in a monitor to your server to watch the installation

Processor upgrade (very easy + around £30)

c) Memory upgrade (again, easy, but not cheap at around £60) - i haven't done this yet - system runs fine @ 2GB - but maxes out.

d) USB keyboard and mouse

As for your q's:

Here's what I'm ultimately looking for:

• Drive Pooling to add or upgrade drives as needed without needing to know how to use RAID
• Folder Duplication (this is another part of drive pooling that allowed seamless redundant backup of your files)
• Automated client backups
• Capabilities to run uTorrent (my preferred torrent client, but others will probably work just as well)
• Prefer to be in a Windows environment since I'm familiar with it and can Remote Desktop into it for management purposes

Pooling and duplication - buy StableBit drivepool @ around $10 - better than DE imho.

Auto client backups - native to WHS2011

Windows environment - very! Nice clean, intuitive dashboard interface + good RDP

uTorrent + other software - Takes a bit of time, but got uTorrent and Emule up and running as services in a day. Server now runs these - can log into either via web interface, making using magnet/torretn/ed2k links a doddle. Also, use NOD32 anti-virus (not too expensive).

Can't emphasize enough how worth it it is!

However, I would seriously consider getting one 3TB drive (or 2x2TB if cheaper?) - I had 2TB and made things sooo much easier and safer to have it all on one disk.

If you decide to take the plunge - gimme a shout and can direct you the right way in terms of links etc....

cheers

EDIT: Oooops sorry. I thought you had a mediasmart server - this may have no relevance at all!! :/

[hansolo77]

Only the debug board part is unnecessary. I'm still holding my breath and waiting. My biggest concern right now is finding a solution that won't cause me to lose all my stuff currently in the storage pool. I have 12 drives now, and they all have stuff on them. They don't make an external drive big enough to dump everything to temporarily hold them until the new OS is installed and the new storage/drive pool is configured/formatted.

[stigzler]

I've been pleasantly surprised by the combo of Stablebit and WHS2011. Basically, lot less fussy over drives than WHS1. When you slot a drive in, it's just as if you've added a drive to your PC. You can see all the files still on it. You choose which drives you make pool drives and which you leave as 'stand alone.' This would help with your data transfer task.

You thinking about building/buying a new system? If so, you could go for one 2/3TB new drive and then slot your drives in one by one + transfer to the new pool drive. Once they're transferred, you could then add your 'old' drives to the pool ...ad infinitum.

Good luck to you, Hans.... taken me about 2/3 months to get sorted, but once yer there, it is defo worth it.