...and ONE name for all!

[Riffman81]

So here's my rant... I use "No-Intro" ROM sets and haven't updated them in several months. So today I finally decide to go get all the new dats and do a clean sweep of all 52 sets I currently maintain on my HTPC and home arcade cab. Luckily, not every set had to be updated, but quite a few of them did. The problem wasn't so much in locating the ROMs as it was in actually slipping them into my ROM sets. What I began to realize is that some of the ROMs I thought I needed, I didn't need at all, they were actually just renamed by the good folks over at No-Intro. Turns out I had several copies of the same ROM(s) just with various naming changes. I should point out that the ROM files I'm refering too were already using the No-Intro naming convention to start, and I know No-Intro uses one ROM for each region, I'm talking about the actual name of the ROM/Game... apparently the ROM name had changed for whatever reason.

Running the sets through CLRMamePro fixed all of this but my rant is more about having one proper naming convention for the emulation community as a whole when it comes to ROM sets. There are many sets out there to pick from. GoodSets, TOSEC, No-Intro, Scene, HyperList, etc. You would think that someone would step up and realize that the entire community would benefit by having ONE proper naming scheme. This would help front-end devs greatly in creating database files, hosting media/video/art, ect. and cut down on much of the confusion for newbies getting into emulation. I can't tell you how many times I've been on the forums over at EmuMovies and answered questions like, "Why Doesn't my ROMs match the video files" or "How do I rename my ROM set"? "What makes one set, better than the other"? No-Intro removes headers from ROMs and I believe the iNES header is required for most NES ROMs to play on real hardware, as well as emulators. Therefore, you have to source out other NES ROM sets. GoodSets bundle tons of "garbage" in with their sets, and Scene releases are often recoded with "Intro" garbage with ROM hackers saying hello to all their friends and telling you not to sell the game on ebay, thus altering the original ROM dump. HyperList base their ROMs from the No-Intro standard, but alter the naming by removing language tags, or in some cases, they change/shorten the ROM name. Again, why alter something if it's fine the way it is?

I maintain full No-Intro sets, but mostly use custom sets consisting of all USA games and European titles (if there was no USA counterpart). For Japanese titles, I only use complete translations and games that are playable without having to read Japanese. I achived this by running HyperList .xml's through CLRMamePro and just renaming all the ROM info in the .xml back to use No-Intro naming based on what was in the No-Intro .dat. Inshort, they are "filtered" No-Intro ROM sets. Nothing Altered as far as naming. Makes for a nice, clean set, without having to house a bunch of games I wont play (or are un-playable) on my PC's HDD. But it is nice having full ROM sets on backup, just incase I want/need a certain ROM.

I've noticed alot of "sources" where you can obtain ROM files switching over to hosting No-Intro sets as well. Is No-Intro now the standard? If so, will there ever be a "Final" version of the .dat files they host? I know new ROM dumps pop up from time to time, and those must be added in, but why the constant renaming/altering of ROM titles already accounted for? I've been pretty vocal about my opinion on having one naming convention, I think it would also be good in preserving classic games for years to come. I highly doubt it'll ever happen, and it may not be a huge deal for most of us, but I thought I'd give you guys something to think about Having one standard in this area of emulation would help on so many different levels. Gone would be the days of having to constantly rename ROM sets, video/media.... etc. Ok, that's the end of my rant, but I would like to know what ROM sets you guys are using, and how often you find yourself updating them. I'm doing an article on this subject soon, so I figured I'd do some "homework" before I go posting on the sites I write for.

[Adultery]

It's No-Intro sets for me mostly, but I also use AdvanScene for GBA and DS. I just prefer NI because I don't keep duplicates, but I want a complete set. Then I create my own set and a map file for gameex, using my Map File Maker set builder option.

I update them about once a year roughly if the set has had a lot of changes, and I prefer ClrMAMEPro for my audits. :-)

[hansolo77]

I use No-Intro as well. And to be honest, I haven't updated my ROMs in probably 5 years. I'm still using an old/outdated version of MAME too. It just seems a tedious task to have to go through and make sure everything is up to date. For consoles, there's probably NOTHING new, just names changed as you noticed. MAME however is always being updated to provide emulation to games that were never supported, or somewhat supported. Plus, I don't believe MAME uses a naming format like No-Intro, I think they just have their own. So if I were to update ANY ROMs on my system, it would be the MAME ones. And with that, you also have to get a new version of MAME to go along with it, so that's why I haven't updated in so long. Why fix what ain't broken?

[nullPointer]

To be honest, I think No-Intro has probably come the closest to being the "one true standard" in terms of cartridge based systems (at least among discriminating emulation hobbyists ), but older standards still seem to pop-up from time to time. I think this is due to people either wanting a perceived increase in compression (I can have ALL my ROMs zipped together in one archive!), or the ever present "pokeRom" crowd (I must collect ALL TEH ROMz!!).

Now disc based systems are where it can get a bit ugly. Not only do ReDump, TOSEC, and Scene use different naming conventions, they use completely different ripping techniques meaning that a TOSEC set might not contain the same files as the ReDump set for the very same game. Not to mention that I've seen more users become firmly entrenched in one set or another and as a result have actually been witness to bitter arguments between which disc set is "better and more true". Madness!

At any rate I couldn't help but think of this which is rather relevant to the conversation.

[ClassicGMR]

I use No-Intro as well. And to be honest, I haven't updated my ROMs in probably 5 years. I'm still using an old/outdated version of MAME too. It just seems a tedious task to have to go through and make sure everything is up to date. For consoles, there's probably NOTHING new, just names changed as you noticed. MAME however is always being updated to provide emulation to games that were never supported, or somewhat supported. Plus, I don't believe MAME uses a naming format like No-Intro, I think they just have their own. So if I were to update ANY ROMs on my system, it would be the MAME ones. And with that, you also have to get a new version of MAME to go along with it, so that's why I haven't updated in so long. Why fix what ain't broken?

This is exactly how I feel. Everything I want to play already works and works well. Why should I update ANOTHER set and have to update ANOTHER emulator which may require new configurations and set up all over again?

It works. I'm done. No point in updating.

That's exactly what happens too. HA!

[Tempest]

I have come up with a fool proof way to make sure that all of my sets up to date with little or no effort on my part. An additional benefit of using my system also ensures that I use the minimum possible amount of hard drive space while at the same time having every possible rom for every system.

I store all of my emulation goodies on everybody Else's computers in cyberspace. It is the perfect storage solution.

[Adultery]

As in the cloud, or did I miss a joke there? :-)

[Tempest]

It is (and isn't) a joke. As you know, I lost all of my assets quite awhile ago. I read once (on a forum that would know about the desire to collect roms) that the best way to collect them is to not obtain them in the first place. I know where they are, they are backed up on multiple computers, and maintained for me.

I can't say much more than that without breaking the rules.

[DazzleHP]

I'm with the majority i think in that i used No-Intro as my "base" sets of which i created my own cleansets where i have 1 rom per game period. I don't need or care for complete sets - i just want a nice compact set to play with. I haven't updated my cart based collection in a very long time. As you've realised, trying to maintain multiple complete sets is a PITA and that's a pain i can do without

The only set i update semi-regularly is MAME - even then i tend to skip 2-3 (whole) versions as with MAME i also create my own sets coz i refuse to harbor 22,000+ roms that will never EVER get used on my system. I'm looking at you fruit machines and pals *hiss*

I guess it all depends on why you are into emulation - some are collectors/completionists who probably hardly load an emu, others for playing them (like me) who just want a nice clean collection. Either way IMO No-Intro sets are probably the best whichever your needs are.

So good luck maintaining them 52 sets man! Rather you than me

TRUEDAT!

[Riffman81]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, keeping the No-Intro sets up to date is quite the PITA But I guess it's the fact that I'm OCD that fuels me to do it. So it's a pain I can stand. I update Mame maybe 2x a year, just depends on if there is really a need to update more often or if a new release is made. Having a "universal" naming convention for roms is an Idea I've given some thought to for quite a few years, as to try and eliminate some of the confusion or misunderstandings about rom sets in general. I got into emulation years ago and I remember being confused by all the different sets out there, wondering why some sets were tagged differently than others. I mean really, how many different tags do you need for Super Mario World? Then as I got into rom hacking, I realized the usefulness of some of the different naming schemes out there. trying to determin if a rom might be headered or unheadered, regions, etc. No-Intro seems to do a great job of keeping things up to date, but it really is alot of work.

Despite that many of the systems being maintained are 20+ years old, new rom dumps appear all the time for them and there are still many "beta" and un-released games just waiting to be dumped. I was on a thread the other day and read that the Castlevania Bloodlines 0.5 beta just sold on eBay for close to $2000! http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/2/bl-beta.htm I wish whoever bought the game would dump the rom image, as that beta is quite different from the actual final release... it's almost a different game in terms of level design. Looks like it'll be held in private collection for years to come with a price tag like that. Another one being held that I'd like to get my hands on is the beta for Mega Man X, again it's got a hefty price tag, and I believe only 3 carts were made. One was sent to Nintendo of course, the other two to GamePro Magazine for review, and EGM, based on the photos I've seen of the actual cart. Now, all 3 are being held in private collection.

EDIT: The page I linked to is quite old, the game has infact been sold.

[davidj1987]

OK, I personally use No Intro for my console roms... disc based systems I use Redump (PS1) or TOSEC (Sega CD) or some other misc collection someone put together (TG-16 and Saturn). In the time I've been through two HTPCs I haven't updated but maybe in the next few months I'll update my sets. MAME I rarely ever update. I have I think 0.14X something on my HTPC but my main PC I have 0.152 waiting to get moved over but I am too lazy right now.

I haven't had much problems but I haven't updated in almost a year at this point but regardless I dunno what redump is missing for the US PS1 and I know the TOSEC Sega CD has a couple of errors for US games (I replaced the games that have problems with bin/cue rips).

I have my GameEX/Emulator install pretty simple so once I install windows and GameEX I just need to do a few things and can get playing some games