(Assist) Calling all computer techno-geeks.

[hansolo77]

I need a little help troubleshooting my dads computer. It suddenly stopped working. The computer turns on, but there is no display. He thinks its the hard drive, but i checked it and it spins up and clicks away fine. He noticed the HDD activity light doesnt come on which is why he thought it was the HDD. I told him even if the HDD was unplugged he should still be able to see a display and be able to enter the BIOS. I tried plugging the monitor into the adjacent port on the video card but it changed nothing. I should also mention that the video cards fan DOES work, so its getting power. I also tried plugging the monitor directly in to the motherboard but that didn't fix it either. I thought it might have been his monitor dying or something with the cables, but it didnt work when i plugged it into my own monitor with my own cables either. Im not sure what else to try. If the RAM or CPU had died, surely the onboard speaker would give error beeps, which its not doing either.

So yeah, anybody got any other ideas before I tell him its hosed and get a new one (whilst saving the HDD of course)?

[nullPointer]

If the RAM or CPU had died, surely the onboard speaker would give error beeps, which its not doing either.

Dumb question but the converse question to this would be does it POST at all?

[Draco1962]

You are not always going to get POST error codes if there are other things going on with the laptop. Not sure of the age of his machine, but it doesn't sound promising for a repair. If the laptop is 4 or more years old, it may be time to look into a replacement.

[Adultery]

If it usually beeps via the onboard speaker and it's not beeping at all then it's not POSTing. A successful POST would be indicated by a single beep.

AKA it's hosed.

[Censored]

Are you sure there is a speaker connected to the mainboard connectors?

Try another graphics adaptor (or onboard VGA, if available)

[hansolo77]

It's a PC, not a laptop. It was bought brand new PRE-FIRE and has been working fine for years. In fact, it was working earlier today. Dad left to go pick my stepmom up from work, she came home, turned it on, and nothing happened.. just the powersupply, cpu, and videocard fans came on. She waited 5 minutes before deciding something wasn't right and called dad up to help, which in turn got me involved. The motherboard DOES have a speaker, I can see it very clearly. However, I'm not sure if it ever beeped. That makes sense though now that I think about it.. Mine beeps when I turn it on (although it's mostly in standby so I hardly ever boot from a cold start). Back in my tech support days I would identify the ERROR beeps, like 4 beeps, etc. This one isn't beeping at all. I also DID mention I tried other graphics ports: "I tried plugging the monitor into the adjacent port on the video card but it changed nothing. I also tried plugging the monitor directly in to the motherboard but that didn't fix it either." I'm not sure what else to try. If it was the video card, then the onboard would work. If it was his monitor or cables, MINE would work. If it was something on the mobo (ram/cpu) I would think there would be error beeps (or as Adultery says, NO beeps). I'm not sure actually how old the computer is, it came with Windows Vista, so it's not THAT old. It's an HP, and I have a serial number, perhaps I can get it checked under some warranty.

My computer is busy doing a virus scan right now, but when thats done I plan on connecting his HDD to my system and attempt to save things like Pictures and eBooks for him incase we can't get it back up and running. I exhausted a good hours worth of trying everything aside from disconnecting everything from the MOBO and installing stuff one at a time. Also, I'm sick with a sinus infection that's beating the crap out of me, so I had hoped I was overlooking something to try (hence my posting this thread).

[Censored]

Did you remove the graphics adaptor when you tried the onboard VGA (I think so but just for sure...)? Also try to reset the BIOS (with a Jumper or by removing the battery)

[Draco1962]

Vista was released 1/30/2007 so it is a 7 year old OS so if bought before 7 was released, it is between 5-7 years old which is venerable age for a PC.

If he has a separate GPU installed, you may have to remove it in order for onboard video to work as some BIOS auto disable the onboard in the presence of an add-on GPU.

Some BIOS allow for the disabling of audible post codes and it could simply be disabled. Some will not even give you post codes if it is the CPU. Bad RAM can cause it to not even start and, again, no post codes. If it has multiple sticks, try taking them out and put in one stick in, boot, if it starts or doesn't, shut it down and repeat the process. If it is the CPU, you are not going to know for certain unless you get a compatible CPU replacement. If it is the mobo, then none of these will likely work and you are then looking at a replacement.

My experience as a tech, in light of the evidence you have presented and not being able to touch it myself says that it is likely a goner. Good luck and hopefully you will prove this assumption wrong!

[hansolo77]

No I haven't tried removing the battery or added graphics card. I will try those tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.

And you're right Draco. Thats why I mentioned I tried everything EXCEPT taking everything out. I will try removing the graphics card and reset the BIOS. If that doesn't work, I'll try removing the RAM sticks. It's still all original hardware except for the the added graphics card. I bought this as a Media Center for my dad, and added the graphics card so he could get an svideo out to the tv. I'll just have to wait until tomorrow (or whenever I feel better) to try a bit more hardware yanking type troubleshooting.

[davidj1987]

Maybe the graphics card died? I would try that. Just a heads up - very few if any new graphics cards have S-video/Component out. If you don't mind a lesser model you might be in luck to find something cheap as everything has HDMI these days with audio.

I can't help with this situation much but I can tell you that HP for me was very stingy with a warranty. If this was found to be a fault of your own - which I am NOT saying this issue is, HP will charge you out the wazoo to get fixed. In 2008 I had a $500 laptop where the screen broke and they wanted to charge me $800 to get a new one installed. I went on eBay and paid $60 for a new screen.

[Draco1962]

I've had and have heard of similar stories regarding all the major manufacturers over the years. Once out of warranty you are pretty much hosed I have found better support through most "mom & pop" PC shops for the machines they've built than from the "big guys."

[hansolo77]

Well we decided it's gone. I removed the RAM and the battery, and connected the monitor to the mobo directly and it still fails to render a display. I found a link on HP's website for troubleshooting when there is no display but the computer powers on. I tried everything they said to with no luck. So we went to the Computer Store and bought a refurbished HP desktop (not mini-tower) that was $99. Very low end, but just a little better than what he had. The only problem at first was that it only supports half-height expansion cards, so the graphics card we originally had in there won't work. Also, we decided to pull the old HDD and put it in the new computer along with the tiny 80gb it had installed. When we first booted up, it's flashing some kind of error about a BIOS module needing upgraded. Not sure what that was all about. We were able to SEE a display though, and that's a lot better than where we were before. The "BIOS" is accessed via F10 instead of DELETE like everybody else. I say "BIOS" because it's actually an HP Configuration utility with no apparent way to access the true CMOS. We didn't see any way to update the drive boot order either, so we ended up taking the case off again and switching the SATA cables around. Now we have a new problem. Windows tries to boot off the old drive then the computer restarts after getting so far. He even tried booting into Safe Mode and it crashes. After all that, I asked him if the Windows 7 Drive will boot.. He just came in to say the Windows 7 installation wants the Product Key, and they didn't include one in the box. NOW he's telling me he found it stuck on the bottom of the case! ARGH!

So anyway, we got a new computer. It's just a temporary fix until he can get a better one. He doesn't like the "desktop" style, and I don't like that he can't upgrade the expansion slots. So, yeah. Any idea why Windows (Vista) would only boot so far and then crash and reboot? He tried going through the Windows Recovery and it didn't help either. Could it be that it's crashing while attempting to identify the new hardware because it's a completely new setup? Or is it perhaps drawing to much power that the dinky 240-watt PSU can't support the added HDD?

[Adultery]

By crashing, you mean it's blue screening and restarting? Or its just turning itself off?

[Draco1962]

It is likely that the OS will need to be reinstalled and registered for the new hardware. MS (especially since Vista) binds the installation to the hardware "footprint" at the time of install. Major changes, such as in your case will cause this to occur. As for the PSU issue, you may want to swap the one from the old PC if a higher wattage than the new one and if compible with the case.

[hansolo77]

Yeah I can't upgrade the PSU because it's one of those micro/slim desktop cases that has a pre-designed PSU for the case. I suppose if it really WAS needed, I could do some searching around, but I don't think that's the problem.

@Adultery; it's like it's BlueScreening and insta-rebooting. You never see the BSOD but that's how it's acting. We did 3 passes of it trying to recover, and each time the results were the same. It DOES look like, via the logs, that it is crashing at hardware level (like it's detecting new devices or something).

@Draco; I believe you're correct, and that is what my assumption was going to be with the "footprint" or digital fingerprint of the hardware. Change something MAJOR and it flubs. I think I remember having to reinstall Windows 7 when my own Primary mobo died a year or so ago for the exact same reason.

At least the "old" drive is accessible. We can get in there and save off all the important stuff. He's decided he'll just go ahead with the upgrade to Windows 7 and just start from scratch with reinstalling software. I think it's a good call.

Now all we need to do is figure out what this thing is:

ME Bios Extension module execution has halted. Theres a long BEEP to alert you something failed. I did some Googling, and found some people having similar issues. Not sure what causes it or what to try. I have already tried one suggestion of removing all cables and the battery, power on (clear out caps) reconnect everything (resetting BIOS) and starting fresh. It still does this. The only other suggestion recommended is to update the BIOS but I can't for the life of me find where to do that. HP's website has a page for this computer. You click the DOWNLOADS link for that specific computer, and it takes you to a search engine. You type in the Model number, and it takes you BACK to the product page, not the downloads. So it's an endless loop. If somebody can find the proper BIOS update, that'd be great! It's a DC7700. The box says DC7700SFF, but I assume the SFF just means "Small Form Factor" since it's not a tower or ultra slim.

UPDATE: I found the downloads to the firmware, etc. I was originally trying to do it on my Kindle which apparently doesn't do JAVA very well for displaying the results. I had it right all along. Just waiting for dad to go through the update process and see if it fixes it. Thanks for the tips guys.

[Draco1962]

Best of luck!

[Draco1962]

Just checking in to see how the replacement PC for your dad is working out.

[Adultery]

/side note: I know how ya feel Han. My dad got a new laptop, I inherited his less than a year old HP i5 x 8 gb ddr. But unfortunately he hated Windows 8 and had called me everyday pissed off. It was a good score for me, but the price tag is way too high! :-)

Gonna try that classic shell, hopefully he'll feel better about it. :-)

[Tempest]

Didn't you write an app regarding your dad and computers?

[Adultery]

Yeah I did, I should put that on there. :-)

[Draco1962]

Can i borrow & modify that app for some of the people I support at work?

[hansolo77]

Well, I did identify the mobo was the problem. According to numerous sources, the mobo was faulty. It was going to fail eventually, and typically failed within 2 years tops of purchase, but Dad didn't use it more than 15-20 minutes every couple of days. I'm sure if it was still under warranty, HP would have repaired/replaced it. Unfortunately, the warranty was LONG past expired.

The replacement we ended up getting was such a chore to get fixed. The problem with it wasn't HP's fault. There was a 3rd party refurbisher that basically did the reclaim. According to the company's profile, they recycle old systems from businesses who upgrade, and then sell them to retailers for their profit. They go through and verify the system is capable of booting, format the hard drive, leave the recovery partition in place so it auto-installs Windows upon startup, and rebox it. Any kind of maintenance required, like BIOS updating, is the responsibility of the end-user. The system itself is also not available for HP warranty coverage. So when I went though trying to figure out how to fix it, I was pretty much left on my own. What I ended up doing was just giving up and posting a message on the HP support forums, describing the problem, and the many suggested solutions I tried with no success. There was a very helpful person who helped walked me through. The biggest problem I had was that the BIOS could only be updated via floppy disk (which pretty much doesn't exist anymore), CDROM (who wants to waste a disk for 23k?), or flash drive. Flash drive seemed the easiest option, but every time I tried, the computer would boot up saying the boot sector was corrupted. I went through days of searching the web trying to figure out how to make the USB flash drive bootable. When I finally figured it out, it still wouldn't work. Ultimately the solution came by formatting the drive via command prompt in the FAT32 filesystem, which surprisingly is no longer a listed format option inside of Windows (exFAT doesn't work). Once I did that, I was able to flash the BIOS via the built in utility IN the BIOS. But the alarm/warning still happened. The solution to that problem then was to remove the battery, power, and press a little yellow reset button the mobo for 20 seconds. Now everything is good.

I even went as far as to replace the CDROM drive (read only, 48x speed) with the Lightscribe DVD-RW drive that came with the other HP, and also upgraded the RAM (4x512mb sticks) with RAM from the other HP (now 2x512mb and 2x1gb). We then installed the original HP's HDD too, so now he has the (ungodly small) 80gb boot drive and his original HP's 500gb as storage/apps/utilities.

All and all, a pretty complex yet learning experience. Word of caution.. don't buy into the refurbished computer systems idea if you're not willing to take on the burden of solving any problems on your own. Sure, the price tag is appealing, but you really do get what you pay for. This system was $99. But we ended up spending like a week fixing it, and the system was in dire need of upgrading.

[Draco1962]

I used to referb older systems back in the 90's to make extra cash for maintaining and upgrading my own PC and peripherals. Usually, referb ended up being more like "Frankensteining" as I would often have several machines in the same or similar series that ended up stripped and recombined to make a working PC out of it. Occasionally I would have to add 3rd party parts when neither had a good working part in common (PSUs, CD/DVD drives, etc.).

I picked up the remains at yard sales, from friends at work, etc. for $5 to $25 a pop, and some times for free. I was then able to sell for about $100 to $200 depending on how far out of current the machine was. While it sounds like a tidy profit, if I were to subtract work hours as if I was an hourly employee, I would be in the red. It was fun for the hobby and learning, but I stopped after Walmart started pushing more capable intro systems for just $100 to $200 more. I will be tossing out a few boxes worth of old PSUs, RAM, AGP GPUs, IDE CD & DVD ROM drives this weekend - leftovers from some old systems I retired and my "holding onto because it might be usefull in another refurb later" days.

[hansolo77]

Heh, yep. I got a box like that in mybasement. Full of old computer parts. Always feel like you never know when you'll need it. Most of my stuff was hand-me-downs as we upgraded, or finds in the dumpster when people just through them out not knowing stuff like HDD's and RAM can be re-used. I got like 3 5.25 inch floppies down there, 2 tape backup drives (with 150mb tapes), 100 watt power supplies, I think a 100mb hard drive, lots of old 3.5 inch floppies (but no disks), a bunch of crap games that nobody's heard of, a couple ball mice, 2 or 3 BIG PLUG keyboards (pre-PS/2). Hehe I think I even have an old SoundBlaster. Thats how I learned about computers too. A friend of mine found a computer in the dumpster and never got it to work, gave it to me. I spent a summer taking it apart, making notes of how everything hooked up, and figured out how to fix it. Got it up and running, and it was a McDonald's drive-thru POS client. HEHE! Formatted that bad boy and put Telix (old-skool modem software that supported Z-Modem) on it so I could connect to our local Freenet and play MUDs and Chess.com matches. Remember having to type out the old modem AT commands to get the communications to work? Ahhh the good old days before the internet.

[Draco1962]

I am very familiar with having to troubleshoot and setup manual modem commands. Will have to setup a chess match some time.