Maximum # of gamepads on PC

[snarls]

hi,

I'm new here and already asked a gameex question in the other forum, but i have kind of a general question for gamers who might know...

I'm playing Saturn Bomberman via SSF with friends and as you may know it has a 10 player mode and as i remember how fun that was at parties with my actual console back in the day. i'd really like to get that many joysticks working for SSF.

At present I bought a MS Wireless Xbox controller for PC which came with a USB receiver which seems to work fine with that xbox controller and 3 other wireless regular xbox controllers on my pc. All i have to do is set up the virtual sega multitaps in ssf and theyre good to go and we have 4 player Bomberman.

But what is the most wireless (this is couch gaming on an HTPC) controllers you can have on a PC? - i googled and cant seem to find a definitive answer for Win7 x64. How can i get another 6 gamepads working? I have a feeling that another one of these xbox receivers would fail or conflict since theres only 4 lights on it and 2 usb receivers would interfere with each other? And i'd rather not buy them if they wont work...

Anyone have 10 working? 4 ppl is cool but it's totally mental on a big screen or projector with 10 ppl and i'd love to get it going. Thanks!

[Draco1962]

You will be limited to 4 Xbox 360 wireless controllers. My guess is that you would not be able to supplement that number with additional wired 360 controllers.

Whether or not you can add another brand (Logitech comes to mind) of controllers or not I am uncertain. You will also be limited by whatever the max # of players your game and emulator can support.

[snarls]

thanks for your reply. i kind of guessed that more xbox controllers wouldnt work (but i dont know for sure) SSF looks like it can handle 12 controllers.

any suggestions on what brands of wireless gamepads would be a) compatible w my existing 4 xbox ones and b ) are decent controllers i.e. xbox equivalent?

and i guess on top of all this how many can Win7x64 support in total? if i go w logitech can i add 6 more? id need something with a multitap usb receiver because id run out of usb ports. Whats the most controllers youve seen connected to a PC? Surely a more experienced gamer than i has done this or knows of such a product?

sorry for all the questions - i appreciate your advice :-)

[Draco1962]

Like you I wasn't able to find an answer. If you don't have many USB ports, then you may have to consider a powered external hub. You may find yourself a pioneer on this project.

[Chaos.Tiki]

The most Ive ever had plugged into my system was 5. Let us know if you manage to pull this off. Logitek are good controllers. You probably could use PS3 controllers and just puck up a bluetooth reciever for your PC. I know that the PS3 can handle at least 6 controllers itself.

[snarls]

Confirmation here: (in case anyone is interested)

I've got 6 - count 'em, SIX game controllers working on my system - particularly working under SSF 012_beta_R3 Sega Saturn emulator running Saturn Bomberman.

My system is an AMD MA378Pro based HTPC running Windows 7 x64 bit Home Premium.

I now have tested my game rig with 4 Xbox Wireless controllers + the above suggested Logitech wireless F710s of which I have 2 of them.

Controller 1 = Xbox wireless controller for windows (which came with a USB receiver cable - connected directly to a back port on my HTPC)

Controller 2 = Xbox wireless controller for xbox (which came with no receiver and connects to controller 1's receiver)

Controller 3 = Xbox wireless controller for xbox (which came with no receiver and connects to controller 1's receiver)

Controller 4 = Xbox wireless controller for xbox (which came with no receiver and connects to controller 1's receiver)

Controller 5 = Logitech F710 wireless controller (which came with its own USB receiver dongle - currently connected to a non-powered USB hub)

Controller 6 = Logitech F710 wireless controller (which came with its own USB receiver dongle - currently connected to a non-powered USB hub)

I had enough USB ports but wanted to keep the front ones free for movie thumb drives and couldn't be bothered getting a powered hub so I tried the non-powered one and it worked fine for the F710s though its manual suggests a powered one.

Installed the xbox disc driver for the 1st one and 2-4 just worked as different green glowing xbox quarters automatically after that. i did Not install the Logitech driver disc as it said you don't have to if you use them in Xinput mode which i kept their switches on instead of the DirectInput.

I activated them in controller order above then launched SSF and went into options and setup the multitaps for initial gamepad configuration. Subsequent runs just worked. To be safe i put numbered stickers on the backs of them and I wake them up in order just in case.

I suspect i might be able to get another 2 or 4 F710s working and then we could have 8 or 10 player Bomberman. Haven't tried any 12player sports games yet though..

I'll let you know if I get any more working if i buy some more controllers. Hope this helps someone keen to try it. I can't tell you how fun Saturn Bomberman is on the big screen with so many players! :-)

[snarls]

Another question... Although I have it working, things get a little confused if i reboot or plug the controllers in a different order or if one of them disconnects from a timeout.

Does anybody know of any gamepad management software that lets me dynamically set gamepad id #s? Say if player 2 doesnt touch his controller for like 5min then things can get screwy... There has to be something out there that manages directx or xna connections to gamepads and their controller number to windows, but my Google-fu cant find it...

thanks for any help

[nullPointer]

I've used this JoyIDs utility on my machine with some success. I've never really put iot through it's paces with several controllers, but it seems to manage just fine for my somewhat limited usage.

[snarls]

Thank you nullPointer! That was pretty much what I need. If the gamepads are out of order I can switch them around with this - but turns out my other problem was having the F710s in X mode not D mode (there is a switch on them) and if you connect them in X mode (which i assume is XNA xbox mode) then they "steal" a glowing green quadrant from the actual xbox controllers even though all six will be connected. Basically if the Logitech F710s are numbered joys 1-4 then the xbox controllers wont light up even if they are connected. Apparently the green quadrant arc lights on the xbox controllers mean joys ids 1-4 in windows and not xbox controller 1 of 4 etc.

I also found an xbox off utility which software disconnects the xbox controllers sync if you want to connect them in a different order which i found in a win 7 forum in case anyone wants it.

[nullPointer]

That’s very interesting about the F710. I use an F710 myself, but not in conjunction with any Xbox controllers. I’ll have to remember that piece of wisdom in the future, should the need arise. Thanks!

I know that switch has tripped me up a time or two as well. It’s nice to have the ability to switch between DirectInput and XInput, but it can be a real PITA when you need to troubleshoot controller issues only to discover the switch is in the wrong position.

[arckex]

I was very determined to fight through the ssf hassle to do ten man bomberman. i did it, and here are my hassles.

(Well, i lied. I've only got 9 going now, but still.....)

Here are some tricky non-obvious things to make sure of off the bat:

ONLY PAL BOMBERMAN WORKS. this is the most important part. (japanese version might work too...?) US version has netlink enabled, and no netlink-enabled games can boot in SSF. make sure your region is set to europe appropriately.

make sure your PORTs have the "Multi Terminal 6" plugged in. make sure all your controllers are "Control Pad"s; "Multi Controller"s dont work for me.

I've got 7 usb controllers (craigslist is your friend for all of this) and 2 usb keyboards controlling 9 saturn controllers, and it works prefect- once you manage to get through a slightly wonky set up.

some controllers misbehave slightly. (i use three 4-port usb hubs, only 1 is externally powered. one unpowered hub is direct into computer. the powered hub is connected via a 25ft usb extension, and the last unpowered hub is plugged into one of those powered ports on the end of the extender. All hubs are in USB 2.0 ports. Also, some controllers (some any usb devices, really) can misbehave in a USB 3.0 port, so watch that)

one controller is a sidewinder (joystick+ bomberman = respect), and if plugged directly into my computer, it sends the input config into an uncontrollable stream of nonsense data. the only (confusing) fix i can find for this is to plug the joystick into the unpowered usb hub on the end of the extender, at which point it behaves normally. I have no explanation for this- my only guess is something about voltages.

that usb 3.0 hub is tricky. some controllers plugged in there will make the input config hang with a blank input window and no prompting text. some dont. play around if you have this problem with different setups.

i do have a single usb controller that always makes the input config hang no matter where it is plugged in. it's a n64/psx-to-usb converter. i cant boot ssf with this plugged in and change anything about my config. what i CAN do, however, is use a piece of software like XPADDER to map this controller's input to keyboard keys. So, i set up XPADDER with my keyboard keys, boot SSF with only this one controller UNPLUGGED. I then plug in my controller after loading SSF, go into input config, and then set the keys for that controller. SSF only thinks its getting keyboard input (b/c it is) and it doesnt even see the controller itself, and it works. Another tricky thing to note here is that SSF only is allowed to use letter-keys and arrow-keys. this is annoying and is an easy fix if the source code is out there (anyone?)

another good (and strange) note is how SSF handles usb controllers in different ports. if you configure gamepad #1 in port #1 as player 1 and gamepad #2 in port #2 as player 2, and you booted SSF with both plugged in, you can literally unplug them and swap ports and SSF still see them as the originally assigned controller (gamepad #1 now plugged into port #2 is still player 1). The significance of this is that you don't have to remember which port you had your gamepads plugged into when you configured them all. SSF will magically know and get it right.

The further significance of this runs a little deeper. Say, I also have an interest in playing a 4v4 hockey, other crazy multiplayer sports game, etc..... but SSF saves a unique setup file for each game it loads. So, if i have all 10 controllers setup for bomberman, and then load NHL, i have to go through the hassle of assigning buttons for 8 controllers? NO, NO I DONT. go into:

\ssf\Setting\Saturn\*yourGamefileHere*.ini (for example, MK-81070_SATURN BOMBERMAN.ini). Copy everything from

PortFlag0=

to the end of the file. you can then replace this same text in the ini file of whatever game you want to play and not worry about the setup process. if anyone knows a way to make this set by default, please share.

So, knowing these last two paragraphs, I have a piece of tape on the front of every controller with a number on it- the number of the controller as it's configured in SSF. Even if I have this massive 9-controller setup, I can boot SSF with only game controllers #1, #5, #8 (for example) plugged into any port at all, and I can play bomberman (or any multiplayer game) with the great knowledge that these controller are, in fact #1 #5 and #8.

I think that's it. get ready for the best party game of all time. seriously.

[Draco1962]

Hi arckex and welcome to the forum! If you don't mind, could you tell us what game pads you are using for your configuration?

[smd111]

theoreticaly you can have (on modern computers) 255+ different devices attached to one computers

but you have to rember that each card,chip,processor,device,monitor,etc

if i recall correctly irq's are used to tell the computer ware its located so that number quickly dwindles down

but every pc has a set number of irq's that it can use so it all depends on how much stuff you have attached to your pc

[Draco1962]

Add to that any power requirements (and they do draw power, even on the cheaper pads with no lights) and you dwindle down from theory even more. Modern PCs get around the IRQ issues much easier than legacy devices. USB hubs can take on up to around 147 devices via a single port through daisy chaining multiple hubs, however, I would hate to see the throughput numbers on such an arrangement.

[arckex]

if you had powered usb hubs i bet you could get a stupid amount of controllers plugged in.

my 9 controllers were:

2 saitek cyborgs (these are the best gamepad ever btw)

1 gameelements recoil

1 tremon gamepad

1 gravis gamepad pro

1 microsoft sidewinder

1 psx-n64 to usb converter

2 usb keyboards

i also had a mouse plugged in and working.

as a test, i had all of these devices plugged in through 3 daisy chained usb hubs. so 1 plug and windows had no problem finding all devices. quickly, too.

again, i think powered usb hubs are the key here.

[nullPointer]

Wowee! Did you notice any controller latency with this setup?

[arckex]

NONE. Ive never experienced any input-related lag ever with ssf.

this guy did, though:

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34916&start=20

and no one is sure why he lags. so, input lag is uncommon and from an unknown source, most likely an old version of ssf.

[Draco1962]

That is awesome! Yeah, I read the thread and he wasn't forthcoming with the details of his setup other than it all being the latest. That said, his version may not be compatible with "the latest" stuff.

[snarls]

Btw i experience no lag at all with any of my 6 controllers in any game either. It all still seems to be working with SSF Mame & the playstation emus.

The main problem I get is in organizing enough of my friend's schedules to come over to play at the same time. I'm debating having kids just to get some gaming opponents

[arckex]

I literally pitch co-op games as party events. I'll be like "Come over on Thursday, we're going to drink/smoke and play 8-player bomberman" and most people are like "wtf" and some people are like "hell yeah"

then i just run with it. i get shitty beer, and i try hard to have everything set before anyone comes bc people are SO skepitcal of:

-playing a game from pre-2000

-playing a game that wasnt meant to run on computers

so i've got all my controllers labelled with tape with the player number on it (1-9)

and i've got my config INI backed up in case i did something stupid recently.

party on garth

[headkaze]

I also found an xbox off utility which software disconnects the xbox controllers sync if you want to connect them in a different order which i found in a win 7 forum in case anyone wants it.

Can you post the link here and I'll add it to the utilities section of our forum.

[snarls]

i dont have the link to the forum i found it in, the developer just kicked out a simple util for someone who asked for it. I do have the actual standalone app though and i'm sure the dev wouldnt mind if I redistributed it from what i recall of his post. It's only 80K and doesnt require an install or anything. I use it in conjunction with that JoyIds util posted in this thread. This is what the xbox off util looks like:

Clicking a button disconnects that xbox gamepd and "unlights" the green lit quarter on it enabling you to reconnect them in a different order so you don't have to reboot- and sometimes rebooting also doesnt let you reconnect them in a different order because it might remember them which is why this util helps. Also I recall it's a bit better to make your xbox gamepads actually be windows joyids 1-4 -- if you make them say 3-6 and use other non-xbox controllers as 1-2 then they will still work, but the xbox ids 5-6 wont have the green quarter lights on the actual pads themselves.

Note that the MS xbox driver may connect an xbox gamepad as xbox#1 (and light up as quarter 1 for example) but that gamepad might actually be connected to Windows as a different numbered joystick- which is why you also need that joyids util too...

Let me know where you want me to upload it to.