BluRay Players

[hansolo77]

Hey guys;

So I bit the bullet a while ago and bought a new stand alone BluRay player. I was fed up with the crappy lack of BluRay implementation in my HTPC (actually, I read that Microsoft will NEVER release a driver/software capable of rendering BluRay while in Media Center because they're so pissed their HD-DVD format didn't win the HD war). This is also why they're not going to include BluRay in any new XBOX models (since BluRay is Sony, and the devil to them). Microsoft may break though, as there's just no better medium out there right now, and with a new XBOX model in the works, they'll pretty much have to, to be able to survive the next generation war against Nintendo and Playstation.

Anyway, didn't mean to go off on a tangent there...

So this BluRay player I got is from Samsung. It's a BD-6500C. I bought it because I have a Samsung HD Tv, and was happy with the brand. That turned out to be a mistake. Apparently this model has really poor support. It refuses to play some of my BluRays, because of new copy protections. It just flashes up that the disk is dirty or something and needs to be replaced. When they DID send out a firmware update for the player (only 1 since I've bought it), it didn't update to the most recent protections, and thus 2 of my BluRays still refuse to play. Also, It takes FOREVER to load the disks. Advertised right on the box, it says it's the fastest BluRay loader in the market. They're saying like 3 second boot times. If I turn the device on, eject, put in a BluRay, hit eject to close, it should take 3 seconds before the menu is up, but instead takes almost 3 minutes for a Paramount BluRay, 2 minutes on Fox, and the 1 Disney I have the actually loads is about 1 1/2 minutes. Seems pretty slow to me. I tested it with the BluRay drive in my HTPC, and it loads in less than 20 seconds on everything I throw at it. It almost seems like this BluRay player from Samsung is just a glorified DVD player, that has just begun to play BluRays, but isn't fully supported yet. The other thing I really hate about this player is the online functionality. It has very few apps, of which all cost like $4.99 to get, and are all just slideshows of artwork. The only one that's worth anything is the NetFlix app, that comes preinstalled. But even that's a joke and a half. The menu layout for the movies is so screwed up, it's impossible to navigate. You can't "search" for anything, and can only browse item lists 50 movies deep. If you're lucky enough to find a movie you want to watch, you literally have to wait 5 minutes for it to load. I know, I've timed it. From pressing [ENTER] on the play button onscreen, it goes to a black screen with the title in text in the center, and then a blank loading bar at the bottom for 5 minutes. Then suddenly it shows the load bar fill up in less than 2 seconds, and start playing. The NetFlix app will show HD streaming content, but is incapable of displaying them (actually says "this stream format is not supported). Why would it display it if it's not supported? Speaking of unsupported streams, if you want, you can burn your movies to CD/DVD and watch them directly with this player. HOWEVER, it only likes Xvid/Divx. It says it supports h.264 but doesn't. It says it supports .mkv, but it doesn't. What I've found you have to do is rename the files to .avi before you can even see the file on the disk. After that, it's a guessing game to hope the encoder used a setting it's capable of reading. So far, I can only get it to play .mkv containers that have a divx/xvid video and an mp3 in 128k bitrate. Anything higher, it just screeches and screams. Videos always stutter. I've tried burning at lower speeds, faster speeds, different media, even using a USB stick (the one good thing about this player). It doesn't matter.

So what have I done about it? Well, right off the bat, I joined Samsungs support forum and wrote a very long pissed off topic about my problems. Turns out I'm not alone, not by a long shot. I was told to try Googling the model number, and sure enough; there's a TON of people out there having these same problems. So I took the player back to exchange it. They refused to exchange it for something else, only another identical model. So I did, and it still does the same thing. I then emailed Samsung's support directly. It took them 2 weeks to tell me the firmware is bad and to force a manual reset and redownload the firmware. Of course, I did it, and it didn't help. So I wrote them back and told them it didn't help, pointed them to my support thread on their forum. Then 3 weeks went buy after receing the "we have received your email and will be in contact when we have a solution). Their return email finally said "take it back to the store you got it from and exchange it." I blew my top! I was so f@#%ing pissed. I took it back, and they said it was past 90 days and they can't honor their return policy, but would exchange it with a restocking fee of 20%. I said no thanks, and took it home again. Wrote Samsung back again, told them it was past the return date, and asked them to PLEASE escalate the matter to a supervisor. The supervisor replied back, said to call him directly at a toll free number. We troubleshooted for almost an hour, with him having me do a forced reset/re-download of firmware, trying various BluRay disks, and online functions. He even did a remote connection from his computer directly to the BluRay player, and tested for latency, and verified via a system test that all the memory and such in the ROM was working as it should. He said it looked fine to him, but he would escalate it to "level 2". Level 2 sent me an email, saying they reviewed the issues and troubleshooting steps, and confirm this is a 'KNOWN' problem. They said a firmware patch is in the works, and when released I should re-try everything all over again, including a force reset. This email is still sitting in my inbox (so I know how long it takes) from back in February. They have still not released any updates for copy protection, or new firmwares to update compatibility with other media, and nothing at all about NetFlix (they actually said NetFlix wrote the app, and they have no control over it).

So yeah, needless to say I bought a new BluRay movie, and it doesn't work. So I've gone back to my Level 2 email, and replied asking when this new update is coming out. That was 2 days ago, I haven't heard from them yet. This is really rediculous. So um; What BluRay players do you guys have? Can anybody recommend one for me? I'm thinking I'll just pass this one down to Dad, and get a new one. Here are my pre-requisits:

- Plays ALL BluRays, preferrably in less than 3 minutes.

- Accesses BD Live functionality (although there's never really anything out there worth having this for anyway)

- Allows playing of downloaded media/movies without limitations on bitrate/format.

- Has Netflix (not required, but a plus if the layout/menu is decent).

[Draco1962]

That sux. Our kids bought us a Samsung BluRay player and a 48 inch Samsung LCD for Christmas and they work great together and have yet to encounter any issues. If anything, it has outperformed our expectations. Have watched several video formats and mp3s at various bitrates without a hitch. The only time we had an error with a disk was a Redbox rental that was smudged and had a nice scratch in it. Was able to clean the disk and lost a few minutes of movie advancing to the next chapter and continued playing.

[hansolo77]

Yeah, one of my Canadian buddies (whom I play Halo with every night I can) has has the model directly under mine (Mine added wireless networking, while his has wired). His works like a dream he says. Mine has just ALWAYS given me trouble, from excessively long load times, to just downright pitiful media support. All this from a supposedly NEWER model.

[Draco1962]

Ours is the BD-C6500 - sorry to hear you have had so many problems with yours.

[hansolo77]

That's the exact same one I have! I put the C in the wrong place, but that's it! Why would your's work but mine would have the same problem with 2 different ones? Did my store just get a bad batch maybe? Uhg that sucks, now I'm mad again, because somebody else has the same model with no problems! GRRR!!

Ok, do you have the Family Guy Star Wars BluRays? Can you test and see how long it takes to load up? Maybe I'm just impatient and it's the same for you.

[nullPointer]

- Plays ALL BluRays, preferrably in less than 3 minutes.

- Accesses BD Live functionality (although there's never really anything out there worth having this for anyway)

- Allows playing of downloaded media/movies without limitations on bitrate/format.

- Has Netflix (not required, but a plus if the layout/menu is decent).

Man, sorry to hear about your time in tech support hell. What a nightmare! To be honest I just use my PS3 for BluRay (in the same way that my PS2 was my only DVD player for a long time). Iâ??m not a Sony fanboy or anything, but PS3 has served me well as a fairly solid BluRay player. You obviously pay a bit more than you would for a run of the mill BluRay player, but get the added bonus of a game console (and if you're really lucky identity theft ).

- Plays ALL BluRays, preferrably in less than 3 minutes.

PS3 has played everything I've thrown at it, but my selection of BluRays is admittedly limited. Sony is updating the PS3 Firmware all the bleeding time (it can get annoying actually). I think the upshot of the incessant updates is that they can address problems like you describe relatively quickly (although to be honest most of the updates have nothing to do with BluRay). As you pointed out BluRay is Sonyâ??s baby, so I think theyâ??ve got some real vested interest to keep everything operating smoothly.

- Accesses BD Live functionality (although there's never really anything out there worth having this for anyway)

Never tried this on PS3, due to my limited selection of BluRays. According to this it should work. Given that the linked article is from 2008, I imagine theyâ??ve got it fairly well implemented at this point.

- Allows playing of downloaded media/movies without limitations on bitrate/format.

PS3 does play quite a few formats natively, but also has the added bonus of streaming from any DLNA compliant device, which includes computers capable of running Windows Media Player 11 (or higher), and PS3 Media Server (along with a handful of others). At that point the question is whether your streaming device is capable of transcoding a given format. In my experience that answer is typically yes (at least with PS3 Media Server). Bitrate will potentially be better if youâ??re playing content directly from the PS3, but limited drive space can become an issue (a FAT32 formatted external drive should take care of that I guess).

- Has Netflix (not required, but a plus if the layout/menu is decent).

PS3 is Netflix capable. Funny you mention the menus. When I first put Netflix on my PS3 I thought the menu layout was pretty good. Then Netflix decided to change it, and now Iâ??m less enthused. Itâ??s not terrible or anything, just not as good as it was.

[hansolo77]

Well, my internet upload speed really REALLY sucks, but I'm uploading a couple of videos to show you guys how bad this really is. Perhaps Draco can compare these to his. If they're the same, I won't worry so much. But if not, I'm definately going to have to consider getting a new one.

EDIT - WOW, what a waste of time. Just spent like the last 2 hours uploading two video clips to Photobucket.. Neither one of them were successful, saying "Video Error" and that Photobucket had a problem with them. So... anybody know a decent site I can upload videos too? OOOh i know, Youtube!

[hansolo77]

Ok, so here's the first video I uploaded to YouTube. It shows how long I have to wait before Netflix videos start playing. Oddly enough, the video I chose has an [HD] logo next to the title, and it actually played. Perhaps Netflix fixed the [HD] streaming since I last tried. Regardless, this video still shows that it takes WAY too long to start a video. You can tell I didn't edit the video in any way because the ceiling fan is on in the reflection. I put in the description a little bit more detail about the video, such as the excuses Samsung Support gave me. Enjoy!

Draco; could you confirm this with your player to see if it's like this for you too?

[hansolo77]

Here's the 2nd video I made earlier today. This shows how long it takes for a FOX bluray to get to the FOX trailer. I wish I had left it recording. After the FOX trailer, it went to a little animated FOX logo icon that lasted about 3 minutes, then the screen went completely black for another 2 before actually showing the menu. Would like feedback if anybody has any...

[Draco1962]

Ok, so here's the first video I uploaded to YouTube. It shows how long I have to wait before Netflix videos start playing. Oddly enough, the video I chose has an [HD] logo next to the title, and it actually played. Perhaps Netflix fixed the [HD] streaming since I last tried. Regardless, this video still shows that it takes WAY too long to start a video. You can tell I didn't edit the video in any way because the ceiling fan is on in the reflection. I put in the description a little bit more detail about the video, such as the excuses Samsung Support gave me. Enjoy!

Draco; could you confirm this with your player to see if it's like this for you too?

Can't confirm anything with Netflix as I am not a subscriber. If the issue you are having is with streaming, have you checked with your ISP? Also, if you are renting a modem from your ISP, it is possible it may not be functioning right.. hard to say.

[hansolo77]

I have trouble with streaming, but that's not ALL I'm having. Plus, the thing with Netflix is a complete joke. I have other devices I can use with Netflix; XBOX360, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Center, My Brothers PS3. NONE of them have the load time delay. They all start playing within a matter of seconds. Only when I use this BluRay player do I have the apparent load times. It's completely unusable, so I never use it. I use the Media Center version. It's better organized anyway, and loads up instantly on whatever I choose to watch.

What really aggrevates me more than anything is Samsung not acknowledging the problem. They say it's something I am doing wrong. They say there's a problem with MY equipment (like you suggested about the ISP/modem), not their player. Plus, it's not just about the Netflix. I'm fine with using Netflix on the computer. I'd just really like the player to work as advertised on the box when it comes to loading and playing BluRay disks. "Start's Playing BluRays in as Little as 3 Seconds!". Maybe that's what the little loading bar in the bottom corner is for. But the rest of the minutes long black screens, it's unneccessary, and not what I bought the player for. If I knew loading movies takes almost 10 minutes from putting in the disk to actually having the movie playing, I wouldn't have wasted my $299 for the player. The thing is, it DOESN'T take that long on my brothers PS3, and it DOESN'T take that long on my computer's BluRay drive. The problem is with the player! And Samsung refuses to admit they had a faulty batch (since Draco's apparently works brilliantly). I'd send it back to them for a replacement using a batch that works correctly, but they've told me my warranty doesn't cover that. The warranty covers situations where a piece is broke when I take it out of the box. That's about it. I'm fed up with Samsung. I'll never buy another Samsung product.

[Draco1962]

Have you checked for any firmware updates? It is possible mine has an updated firmware version. Also, you didn't note whether or not you tested it at your brothers or elsewhere to see if there was any change.

[hansolo77]

I check for firmwares all the time.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads/BD-C6500/XAA

I curently have v1021.4. The last update was back in April. That enabled 1 of my Disney BluRays to work, but not all of them. They probably won't ever fix the problem I'm having because they feel my problem is in a very small percentage of the rest of the world. I'd estimate only about 1,000 out of 100,000+ players have this problem. That's only 10%. If it was a LOT higher, they might be a little more concerned. But they're just happy to shrug it off and not provide any support at all. They know that 'most' people don't have this problem. Draco's is proof, and the thousands of positive reviews the player gets on Amazon, Samsung's site, C-Net, Home Theater sites, etc are all further proof. I just wish they'd acknowledge the problem. I don't even care if they fix it, because I have work arounds. But why be so blatently refusing to say "yes, it's a problem." The best I ever got was a "it's a known problem and a fix is in the works". But even that hasn't happened yet. I saw last week somebody reported a problem with one of their new 3D players, and Samsung sent out a new firmware within 2 days to fix the problem. When I asked about mine, other user's reported this player is now 'no longer supported' which makes me think they've given up on the issue.

I've not taken my BluRay player to my brother's. However, he has borrowed my BluRay movies to watch on his PS3, and they play fine. Frankly, I don't see what the advantage would be, accept to test the online functionality. I'm pretty confident though that the problem I'm having is not related to my ISP/Modem, as I stated earlier that none of my other devices have this problem.