What's missing from current wrappers?

[headkaze]

I'm looking at writing a wrapper to fill the current void of features not currently out there.

I don't have as much time as I used to play and test emulators, and a major problem is I don't have everything setup on my dev PC to try things out.

So I'm hoping people here can help me. What are missing from wrappers today? Here are some examples

- Multiple CD image games. How is disk swapping currently handled if at all? In WinUAE Loader I have a special key that will rotate the disks through the floppy drive. Would something like this for Daemon Tool images be of any use? My main problem with this is not swapping the CD images but detecting a game that has multiple images especially since there are so many different naming conventions. Any ideas how I would deal with that and what emulators currently have problems dealing with multiple CD images?

- Mouse to key, key to joy, mouse to joy. These are the hardest 3 of the input mapping system. I see mouse to key and mouse to joy to be interesting for using the trackball for games that don't support the mouse. But it would be quite an effort to implement this. Do you see any use for it? Of course key to joy is useful for some things.

- What other things are seriously lacking from current wrappers? What emulators are not at their full potential running through a cab that could be solved through a wrapper?

I know there are wrappers being written using AHK and AutoIt, but I want something that can do all that through a simple ini file (or eventually a GUI). So I'm interested in the opinions here.

[greatflash]

I'm looking at writing a wrapper to fill the current void of features not currently out there.

I don't have as much time as I used to play and test emulators, and a major problem is I don't have everything setup on my dev PC to try things out.

So I'm hoping people here can help me. What are missing from wrappers today? Here are some examples

- Multiple CD image games. How is disk swapping currently handled if at all? In WinUAE Loader I have a special key that will rotate the disks through the floppy drive. Would something like this for Daemon Tool images be of any use? My main problem with this is not swapping the CD images but detecting a game that has multiple images especially since there are so many different naming conventions. Any ideas how I would deal with that and what emulators currently have problems dealing with multiple CD images?

- Mouse to key, key to joy, mouse to joy. These are the hardest 3 of the input mapping system. I see mouse to key and mouse to joy to be interesting for using the trackball for games that don't support the mouse. But it would be quite an effort to implement this. Do you see any use for it? Of course key to joy is useful for some things.

- What other things are seriously lacking from current wrappers? What emulators are not at their full potential running through a cab that could be solved through a wrapper?

I know there are wrappers being written using AHK and AutoIt, but I want something that can do all that through a simple ini file (or eventually a GUI). So I'm interested in the opinions here.

The main problem with wrappers is the lack of multi-disk support. How to implement it is tricky but could use a mapped key(s) (eg "+" "-" ) to swap disks forward backward. Lots of iso's do have "Disk 1 of 4" etc on the end. This at least tells you how many and which disk you are using. Problem is, implementation would vary on a per emu basis, and also - if each iso is rar/7zip/zipped individually, gameex will only have extracted to one image to the unzipped folder. Would work if all images were in a single archive though.

So, the only way it could work is if the images were left individually unzipped in one directory or if they were zipped within one archive.

I could only see it working with daemon tools also. Would the "please wait" that daemon generates cause the emulator to fall bck to the desktop though?

Well.. that was my little rant on iso based multi-disk games. Possible though?

[headkaze]

Hmm maybe I could add zip extraction as well then. With detecting the disk number I could use pattern searching.. something like

Pattern=*Disk [DISK_NUM] of [DISK_TOTAL]*

I think I should probably go with a single key disk swapper though like I have with WinUAE that rotates through them. Since not everyone will necessarily have two buttons handy for changing disks.

I have no problem mounting images though, I don't even get the "Please wait" thing. Have you tried turning off notifications for the drive? You can do that in the "Set device paramters" for the drive.

[greatflash]

Hmm maybe I could add zip extraction as well then. With detecting the disk number I could use pattern searching.. something like

Pattern=*Disk [DISK_NUM] of [DISK_TOTAL]*

I think I should probably go with a single key disk swapper though like I have with WinUAE that rotates through them. Since not everyone will necessarily have two buttons handy for changing disks.

I have no problem mounting images though, I don't even get the "Please wait" thing. Have you tried turning off notifications for the drive? You can do that in the "Set device paramters" for the drive.

No, I have not looked into turning off notifications. It has never caused a problem, I just wondered if it would when swapping disks through a wrapper.

One thing to note, daemon comes in several guises now, the form that all configs follow, the lite version, and the pro. These all use different directories by default and (i believe) pro also has a different executable. These would need to be parsed to the wrapper also.

Perhaps a per-emu config? This could be located in the wrappers directoy (.ini) and the name parsed along with the rom(s). The ini could take care of the rest, from the emu used, temp dir, to the daemon location/filename?

A single cycle key would be great, perhaps with a directx timed overlay (where possible - depending on emu's fullscreen mode) to display the mounting file?

[headkaze]

Yeah I think it would be great to know what disk is being inserted unfortunately my experience with DirectDraw overlays is they are horribly unreliable and work differently according to graphics cards. I guess it will have to be more of a "press the disk rotate key" wait, attempt to go further in the game etc.

Now before I go ahead and start playing with this, what's an emulator that has multiple disk images, preferably one that asks for the next disk without me having to play through large parts of the game?

[bkenobi]

I think PSX is probably the most common one, isn't it?

[greatflash]

I think PSX is probably the most common one, isn't it?

Yep, ePSX or similar is a good idea for playing.

What about an option for multiple mounting..

C64 supports 4 drives all mountable from command line.

X68000 supports 20+ drives all mountable from the command line.

This could be great to auto-mount ALL disks (when possible) at launch. It has always been a shame that X6800 (fantastic by the way) can only mount the first disk on gameex launch and not change without exiting the emu, when 95%+ games on it are multi disk. The same goes with Apple II, PC-FX, the list is large....

You could be onto a great thing, esp with a versatile ini system! (perhaps) Otherwise the execution command could get a bit muddled!

[Brian Hoffman]

I think PSX is probably the most common one, isn't it?

yes it is but 99% of games autosave before it asks for the next disc. FF7 8 9 are great examples of games that are multiple disc but will allow you to continue when just booting from the second disc.

Parasiteeve,metal gear sold and I believe 1 other game are the only games I believe suffer from that type of issue where you cannot simply go any further in a game without inserting a disc while the game unit (or emulator) is on.

So would it be worth it? Perhaps. If HK is serious it could be a great feature and I'm sure some will find other uses for it. Id look for a save state right before it asks for the next disc. They are fairly easy to find and will save of alot of time trying to play through a complete disc.

[Tom Speirs]

I have not had a chance to read the replies to this topic yet, but in the same vein - what can be improved in GameEx for emulator support? At the current time Im quite interested in making things more user friendly with the possibility of an XML driven special "emulator setup wizard", but I am also interested what else can be done. There are generally few future requests on the core emulator support, so maybe HK and I can work together on this?

[headkaze]

I have not had a chance to read the replies to this topic yet, but in the same vein - what can be improved in GameEx for emulator support? At the current time Im quite interested in making things more user friendly with the possibility of an XML driven special "emulator setup wizard", but I am also interested what else can be done. There are generally few future requests on the core emulator support, so maybe HK and I can work together on this?

That's sort of where I was going with this "universal wrapper". Actually it was WinUAE Loader that gave me the idea to do this, since I think it works great for WinUAE I was going to write one that will work for any emulator. But my idea was to copy the wrapper into the emulator's folder and run it to configure it. In the GameEx config you would run the wrapper instead of the emu and send it the game name. The thing I really like about WinUAE Loader is you can configure everything inside the wrapper and even test games before running GameEx. Since the wrapper will be able to send keys, remap keys, mount images etc. all from a GUI there would be no need for the advanced config in GameEx so setting up an emulator should be much easier (ie. No need to look up virtual key codes etc)

"Emulator Setup Wizard" that sounds like a bigger can of worms that what I was heading for! I've pretty much already written the wrapper. But I do think that's a great idea but seems like alot more work than simply a wrapper with a GUI.

[Tom Speirs]

Im not sure what I was thinking is a lot different. From what you say it sounds like a great idea. All I would say then is it would be really cool if it would integrate with the existing setup/configration tools, so users are not confused as to whats going on where. Maybe if its sets a setting, where the other tools can say, this emu is cofigured with [insert product name] click here to open the tool, something like that. Windows seems to do that all the time It sounds like a great idea, I just want to make sure it integrates closely, so 1 it gets used and not forgotten about, and 2 it wont confuse folks.

But im all for it

[greatflash]

Im not sure what I was thinking is a lot different. From what you say it sounds like a great idea. All I would say then is it would be really cool if it would integrate with the existing setup/configration tools, so users are not confused as to whats going on where. Maybe if its sets a setting, where the other tools can say, this emu is cofigured with [insert product name] click here to open the tool, something like that. Windows seems to do that all the time It sounds like a great idea, I just want to make sure it integrates closely, so 1 it gets used and not forgotten about, and 2 it wont confuse folks.

But im all for it

I think it is a great idea also. If you want any testing done HK, you know you only have to ask.

PS. please don't let this push DBM to one side The DB's are taking a lot of time and anything you can do to aid this is very much needed... kiss kiss

[headkaze]

Well I think an "Emulator Setup Wizard" as something that is more like the Setup Wizard but allows more indepth configuration of the emulators, like the ability to edit the advanced configs. The wrapper idea is more a separate program that you copy to the emulator's folder and run a config there. The latter is what I've been working on, but I think the "Emulator Setup Wizard" is also a good idea just not what I was originally thinking and IMHO a much larger project because it would have to manage all the IMPORT-EXPORT profiles, the Advanced Config's and obviously all the current stuff the Setup Wizard does in regards to "Emulator Selection" and "Emulator Setup".

So I think one would have to take out all the emulator setup code from the Setup Wizard into it's own program and expand it from there. The Setup Wizard would probably launch it as part of setup. I think if it was done really well it would definately make setup heaps easier but I think the current Setup Wizard has limitations in it's design that make it too hard to "tack on" an advanced "Emulator Setup Wizard" because I think, for a start, everything needs to be organised into tabs and sections. The Setup Wizard currently is not designed for the complex layouts this would need IMHO. In other words, a can of worms

This project was about exploring all the holes in the current wrappers and as a challenge fill that space. Part of this challenge was to learn all the necessary tricks to do these things AutoIt/AHK does but in C++. That's where this started, and because of this challenge what I've coded re-does alot of what the advanced config does but into my own wrapper. So I don't know they sound like two very different project/ideas at the moment.

[headkaze]

I think it is a great idea also. If you want any testing done HK, you know you only have to ask.

PS. please don't let this push DBM to one side The DB's are taking a lot of time and anything you can do to aid this is very much needed... kiss kiss

Well I've been working on this wrapper for a few days so I haven't been able to spend time on DBM. And since I've been offline for a few days after that I've had to spend all night catching up on the forums lol Anyway I will definately be looking at adding the "Search and Replace" sometime.

I think Tom has opened another "can of worms" with the "Emulator Setup Wizard"! Another project I can see myself doing down the line.

[greatflash]

Well I've been working on this wrapper for a few days so I haven't been able to spend time on DBM. And since I've been offline for a few days after that I've had to spend all night catching up on the forums lol Anyway I will definately be looking at adding the "Search and Replace" sometime.

I think Tom has opened another "can of worms" with the "Emulator Setup Wizard"! Another project I can see myself doing down the line.

Do you ever rest?.....

Do you hang upside down from trees, honing your thoughts, breathing slowly, listening to the Cookyburrah singing quietly in your ear. Do you find yourself seeing light in the darkness as your mind rests at one with nature...?

If you do, thought I would let you know that we all meet on Fridays for the "Do you hang upside down from trees, honing your thoughts, breathing slowly, listening to the Cookyburrah singing quietly in your ear. Do you find yourself seeing light in the darkness as your mind rests at one with nature? Society!"

Oh, this Friday - Mrs. Carmeltoe is bringing a selection of her Buns, she has promised to bring some of her Creosote & Walnut Fairy cakes also... I could ask her to bring one extra for you... You never know?

[Brian Hoffman]

Do you ever rest?.....

Do you hang upside down from trees, honing your thoughts, breathing slowly, listening to the Cookyburrah singing quietly in your ear. Do you find yourself seeing light in the darkness as your mind rests at one with nature...?

If you do, thought I would let you know that we all meet on Fridays for the "Do you hang upside down from trees, honing your thoughts, breathing slowly, listening to the Cookyburrah singing quietly in your ear. Do you find yourself seeing light in the darkness as your mind rests at one with nature? Society!"

Oh, this Friday - Mrs. Carmeltoe is bringing a selection of her Buns, she has promised to bring some of her Creosote & Walnut Fairy cakes also... I could ask her to bring one extra for you... You never know?

WTF..

Man this thread has gone to hell rather quickly. Besides is Mrs. Carmeltoe really Mrs. Cameltoe? Also are Fairy cakes really that good for you. I heard from a friend of a friends cousin that fairy cakes make you gay. Not that its a bad thing. Its just google may get the wrong idea of the scope of this forum.

Hmmm... Makes me wonder.

EDIT: I googled "fairy cakes": I guess in england they call cupcakes "fairy cakes" there. As they are aimed at childern.

Heh... Man thats the second time I was had by flash. The first was the squirrel fish. Again google told me there really was such a thing.

hehe..

http://cupcakestakethecake.blogspot.com/20...ake-debate.html

[greatflash]

WTF..

Man this thread has gone to hell rather quickly. Besides is Mrs. Carmeltoe really Mrs. Cameltoe? Also are Fairy cakes really that good for you. I heard from a friend of a friends cousin that fairy cakes make you gay. Not that its a bad thing. Its just google may get the wrong idea of the scope of this forum.

Hmmm... Makes me wonder.

EDIT: I googled "fairy cakes": I guess in england they call cupcakes "fairy cakes" there. As they are aimed at childern.

Heh... Man thats the second time I was had by flash. The first was the squirrel fish. Again google told me there really was such a thing.

hehe..

http://cupcakestakethecake.blogspot.com/20...ake-debate.html

Snigger!!!

It is Mrs. Carmeltoe, she takes great offence at being called Cameltoe - you may even get a Rock Cake thrown at you...

I will end up banning myself at this rate

[Tom Speirs]

Well I think an "Emulator Setup Wizard" as something that is more like the Setup Wizard but allows more indepth configuration of the emulators, like the ability to edit the advanced configs. The wrapper idea is more a separate program that you copy to the emulator's folder and run a config there. The latter is what I've been working on, but I think the "Emulator Setup Wizard" is also a good idea just not what I was originally thinking and IMHO a much larger project because it would have to manage all the IMPORT-EXPORT profiles, the Advanced Config's and obviously all the current stuff the Setup Wizard does in regards to "Emulator Selection" and "Emulator Setup".

So I think one would have to take out all the emulator setup code from the Setup Wizard into it's own program and expand it from there. The Setup Wizard would probably launch it as part of setup. I think if it was done really well it would definately make setup heaps easier but I think the current Setup Wizard has limitations in it's design that make it too hard to "tack on" an advanced "Emulator Setup Wizard" because I think, for a start, everything needs to be organised into tabs and sections. The Setup Wizard currently is not designed for the complex layouts this would need IMHO. In other words, a can of worms

This project was about exploring all the holes in the current wrappers and as a challenge fill that space. Part of this challenge was to learn all the necessary tricks to do these things AutoIt/AHK does but in C++. That's where this started, and because of this challenge what I've coded re-does alot of what the advanced config does but into my own wrapper. So I don't know they sound like two very different project/ideas at the moment.

OK mate, I understand, and I say go for it. I can always code the emulator setup wizard myself. Sorry did not mean to put things off track, was really just sharing my own ideas

To reiterate I do like the idea, and know where you coming from. Kind of like a "Global" Wrapper. Its an awesome idea

[headkaze]

If you do, thought I would let you know that we all meet on Fridays for the "Do you hang upside down from trees, honing your thoughts, breathing slowly, listening to the Cookyburrah singing quietly in your ear. Do you find yourself seeing light in the darkness as your mind rests at one with nature? Society!"

Oh, this Friday - Mrs. Carmeltoe is bringing a selection of her Buns, she has promised to bring some of her Creosote & Walnut Fairy cakes also... I could ask her to bring one extra for you... You never know?

Take your pills Flash, I think you acidently dropped the ones from the tictac container by mistake

[Tom Speirs]

Its really hard to tell, if all this lucy in the sky with diamonds style talk is because you have taken pills, or you have forgotten to. Perhaps you can clarify Flash? Either way, is there a doctor on the forums?

[Tempest]

Sorry to be getting in on this so late HK, I was reading Viper004's post about a wrapper for Jaguar CD, and had a thought.

I'm not sure if you are headed in this direction, but it would be cool to have a "Wrapper Wizard"

You would run the "Wrapper Wizard", and then run "Project Tempest" (A Jaguar emulator, no relation to me ) The "Wrapper Wizard" would watch as you went through all of the steps to run a game in Project Tempest. I don't know all of the steps, but let's say: Starting the emulator, loading a game, setting to fullscreen, etc., exit game.

The "Wrapper Wizard" would then build a script to repeat the necessary steps, as demonstrated by the user.

Is this kind of where you are heading? If it's not, I may give it a whirl. Or maybe when your done it won't be necessary?

[bkenobi]

Not that HK couldn't do that, but you realize that AHK has a script recorder feature built in, right? It will do exactly what you suggested. You do have to review the code and make modifications as necessary (like adding wait times and such), but it gets you most of the way there.

[Tempest]

I'm pretty sure you meant LJA....

No, I did not know that, but I looked in my AHK folder, and there it is!

Tell people to stop bothering us, and to start writing their own wrappers!

I'm just kidding, I think it's crazy that people have stuff, but won't share.

</Rant>

What is it with people who say "You'll learn more if you do it yourself"? We all have different prefered methods of learning. I prefer to learn by observation. If it really is better to learn everything on your own, why do we have schools and colleges? Why do we even have this forum? We should all just create our own front-ends. Wouldn't that be better? I do realize that some people take it to an extreme, but for the most part, aren't we here to help each other? What do I learn by wasting hours trying to figure something out on my own? Does it really ingrain it into my head, or does it just fill my head with a bunch of useless information? I think that it must have come from their childhood. Their parents couldn't admit that they didn't know everything, so they just said "You'll learn more if you do it yourself". It's time to break the cycle!

</End Rant>

I feel Better!

Thanks for the info BK!

[headkaze]

Tempest: Exactly where I was heading with this, a "Wizard" type interface for setting it up (well maybe not a wizard setup but definately a gui of some sort). I wanted to make a wrapper like WinUAE Loader that was universal and could be configured for any emulator via a gui.

I understand that alot can be done with AutoIt but I wanted to write this from scratch. There are some things that AutoIt arn't so good for (especially writing user interfaces) as well as the fact it's a scripting language I'm not very familiar with.

[Tempest]

That sounds good! I will be happy to help test when you are ready. I've got a bunch (47) of emulators set up, it would be interesting to see how well the wizard works.