Hiding clones

[David R Hilgendorf]

Does hiding clones hide ALL clones, or does it leave clones that are better than the parent rom? The latter method would be prefered.

Also is there a way to hide or remove all the mahjong games? I added mahjong to the filter keywords, but I am not sure how that keyword filter works. Maybe you could add that filter seperately like the Adult games filter.

[Toonces]

Hi Dave,

I was just reading this over and the thought comes to mind, who decides which is the better clone? I am sure they are out there but who would create the list or does one already exist?? I am just curious as to how you would make the determination to keep clone X over it's parent? I like the idea I just don't see how it could be done programatically without a pre-existing list of what you want.

Toonces

[David R Hilgendorf]

Mamewah does this, I am not sure the method he uses, but I believe it is inherent in the mame.exe -listinfo. i.e. I think some parent roms (particularly Sega) are encrypted and don't work correctly, and the "bootlegs" or clones do.

So I think it could be not too much trouble to have Show clones options be,

YES

NO

Only if better than parent (mamewah plageurized)

Maybe a quick email to minwah can tell you how he implemented it.

Thanks,

Dave

[Tom Speirs]

Mamewah does this, I am not sure the method he uses, but I believe it is inherent in the mame.exe -listinfo.  i.e. I think some parent roms (particularly Sega) are encrypted and don't work correctly, and the "bootlegs" or clones do. 

So I think it could be not too much trouble to have Show clones options be,

YES

NO

Only if better than parent (mamewah plageurized)

Maybe a quick email to minwah can tell you how he implemented it.

Thanks,

Dave

I have to go with ToonCes that I did not think this was possible. It's certainly a feature I would like too. If anyone has any more info on how to do this, please share. From what I hear MinWah is off sunning himself in Australia, and to be honest I am not really in contact with him anyway.

[Toonces]

I have to go with ToonCes that I did not think this was possible. It's certainly a feature I would like too. If anyone has any more info on how to do this, please share. From what I hear MinWah is off sunning himself in Australia, and to be honest I am not really in contact with him anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, being a cat of a curious nature I decided to see if anyone else had asked that question on the mameworld forums. Lo and Behold, Minwah's answer:

"If the 'cloneof' field from mame -listxml has something in it then it is a clone. If any or all of the driver, color or sounds status' are more complete for a clone than parent, then it is classed by MAMEWAH as 'better'."

The original thread is here: http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showt...o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Tom, you think it's doable without too much trouble?

Thank You, Drive Through.

Toonces

[Tom Speirs]

Well, being a cat of a curious nature I decided to see if anyone else had asked that question on the mameworld forums. Lo and Behold, Minwah's answer:

"If the 'cloneof' field from mame -listxml has something in it then it is a clone. If any or all of the driver, color or sounds status' are more complete for a clone than parent, then it is classed by MAMEWAH as 'better'."

The original thread is here: http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showt...o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Tom, you think it's doable without too much trouble?

Thank You, Drive Through.

Toonces

Yes, I think I can do similar logic fairly easily, as I already store whether each game is working and working perfectly.

Just need to make sure it does not make the update process much longer. It's long enough as it is.

[David R Hilgendorf]

One more thing to add to this thread. Once we have eliminated "clones", whether they are better or not, I would also like to see the games marked as clones, but which are technically hacks.

For example SF2 rainbow edition hacks are completely different games than SF2, but they get filtered by clones. There are some other hacks that are also amusing to play on occasion.

This is very low on my priority list, but I thought it may be related directly to clones better than parents.

Maybe having "All roms" and "Originals only" both show up on the Main menu would be an easy way to see all the ones that had been filtered out, kind of like you filter neogeo and CPS already (which was a great idea).

[Tom Speirs]

One more thing to add to this  thread.  Once we have eliminated "clones", whether they are better or not, I would also like to see the games marked as clones, but which are technically hacks. 

For example SF2 rainbow edition hacks are completely different games than SF2, but they get filtered by clones.  There are some other hacks that are also amusing to play on occasion.

This is very low on my priority list, but I thought it may be related directly to clones better than parents.

Maybe having "All roms" and "Originals only" both show up on the Main menu would be an easy way to see all the ones that had been filtered out, kind of like you filter neogeo and CPS already (which was a great idea).

Look out for the 'Best' Clones and 'Originals only' features in the next release.

[They will both be turned off by default, and the Originals only list will be exactly that, with no 'best' game feature. To have the 'best' game you will need to update the list with noclones. not 100% as you asked for, but hopefully yourll be satuated ]

I don't see anyway I can do hacks. As far as I can see there is no way to differentiate these from clones. Although I do like your other ideas and will be implementing them shortly.

Thanks,

Tom

[wrench]

I'm pretty new to gameex,I've been playing with a couple fe's trying to find one that works good in a stand alone mame cab with a lot of kid use,so I need a fe that can be used without constant adult supervision,this looks like it has a lot of options that may make that possible,we'll see.Any way the clone issue discussed here has been one feature I've been looking at in my fe decision and a lot of the fe's seem to attact it the same way,either on or off basically.I'm no programer but what I would like to see is just leave them on and after the front end builds the game list of avail roms,have an option in the fe config that lists all of the games in the gamelist with a simple check box that would either show or hide a particular game in the fe game menu when it starts,so you could pick and choose which clones are avail to play or are hidden.

[Toonces]

I'm pretty new to gameex,I've been playing with a couple fe's trying to find one that works good in a stand alone mame cab with a lot of kid use,so I need a fe that can be used without constant adult supervision,this looks like it has a lot of options that may make that possible,we'll see.Any way the clone issue discussed here has been one feature I've been looking at in my fe decision and a lot of the fe's seem to attact it the same way,either on or off basically.I'm no programer but what I would like to see is just leave them on and after the front end builds the game list of avail roms,have an option in the fe config that lists all of the games in the gamelist with a simple check box that would either show or hide a particular game in the fe game menu when it starts,so you could pick and choose which clones are avail to play or are hidden.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only problem with approaching it that way is that there are more than 5,000 sets in the current MAME. If you are going to manage a list that large, you might as well just manage the roms themselves and not put them in your rom folder. Then you don't have to filter anything. just put only the sets you want in the rom directory and let it build the list. The filters are good for tossing out large categories of games. Not perfect but it does get the list to be a bit more manageable. I think with Tom implimenting a "don not filter" list in an upcomming release that will be about as good as any fe gets at filtering without having to manage the roms one by one.

just my .25

Toonces

[wrench]

I can see the logic in that in a way but my problem is that some of the rom sets are tied together so much its hard to tell which is the parent set and which is the clone.If you pull a rom set you know you don't want it has an effect on one you do like and want to keep.I just think it would work better in the long run to let the game list be created and then be able to select which ones you want to be displayed in your fe menu.

[Toonces]

I can see the logic in that in a way but my problem is that some of the rom sets are tied together so much its hard to tell which is the parent set and which is the clone.If you pull a rom set you know you don't want it has an effect on one you do like and want to keep.I just think it would work better in the long run to let the game list be created and then be able to select which ones you want  to be displayed in your fe menu.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't get me wrong, I asked for that in the beggining too However, after looking at this several times and trying to suggest a way that would make it easier, I pretty much came to the same conclusion that unless you manage the individual roms, there's really not a really good way of filtering out large numbers of roms and keeping what you would want without some major catagorization and cross categrories. Right now, catlist and the other support files do a decent job but it would probably take a few people quite a bit of time to be able tocategorize to the level needed to get realy granular. you'd need something along the lines of DMOZ and a team of volunteers to accomplish the task. Of course, I think the upcoming "No Filter List" feature will go a long way to getting you back roms you want included.

A good source to find out parent roms, etc is MAWS. The search features should help you identify which is the parent set, etc. http://www.mameworld.net/maws/

Toonces