WHAT?!

[fRequEnCy]

Use a power supply calculator to help determine the size needed. This is one I'm aware of that's recommended by fellow computer repair techs. But as mentioned the power supply you were using was way underpowered for that setup.

[hansolo77]

Use a power supply calculator to help determine the size needed. This is one I'm aware of that's recommended by fellow computer repair techs. But as mentioned the power supply you were using was way underpowered for that setup.

Lol thats the site I used! It says to get like a 250 watt power supply.

[fRequEnCy]

Lol thats the site I used! It says to get like a 250 watt power supply.

Junk! LOL.

[hansolo77]

You guys are still the best source I have for help when it comes to computer needs. So until somebody gets totally pissed because I'm off-topic'ing in the off-topic forum, I'm gonna keep running this thread running for help as long as I can.

I thought I had the bad drive I was having trouble with finally fixed, but it "died" again within 24 hours of hooking it back up. Once again, running it through SeaTools (the Seagate drive utility), it shows the drive fails the DST (drive self test). So I ran it all day yesterday while I was at work on a repeating command prompt chkdsk. I had it do the full scan/surface test, checking for bad sectors, repairing, and rescanning. Had it do that over and over again all day. When I got home, I put the drive back into the server, then copied everything off before it failed again. Then I took the drive out, and did a complete overhaul on it. First I reset the MBR (master boot record). Then I did a repartition in windows using the fast format. Then I booted into DOS and did another MBR reset. Then I set it up using MHDD to do a complete sector-by-sector check, which tests for speed, not content. Anything over 500ms gets wiped with 1s then 0s until it verifies it can read it faster than 500ms. I set it to do that over and over again on the entire drive all night. When I woke up this morning, it was just completing it's 3rd run. I stopped it at the end of that. Then I went back into windows, re-partitioned again only this time doing a slow standard format, which took about 4 hours. Once that was done, I deleted the partition once more. Then I re-ran it through SeaTools. It passed the DST. I then ran it through the Short Generic Test, passed. Then the Long Generic Test, passed. The Long Generic took another 4 hours or so to complete. Everything looked good, so I hooked it back into the server.

While it was running one of the utilies, the long format or the long generic test, I don't remember which, I went to Microcenter. Its the only store within 100 miles of where I live. Crazy I know, considering I live in Columbus, Ohio.. the capital for crying out loud. Anyway, I bought a new power supply. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0361181 I hooked it all up and it's doing it's thing. I noticed right away that the inside of the case is much cooler with this running. As for the power itself, it should (theoretically) be much cleaner since it's new, and provide better power for sudden demand spikes as it has 4 +12v rails (whatever that means) compared to only 1 or maybe 2 the old one had. The one negative part about this PSU so far is that it wasn't modular, so I got a bunch of unused cables cluttering up the inside of the case. Luckily they're all at the bottom and not dangling down disrupting air flow. So anyway, I'll let this puppy run and see how it goes.

So that's how my past 48 hours has been.

I got a question for you guys now. Dad brought up an interesting point and I want to ask what your opinion is. Back 'in the old days' there used to be a setting somewhere that you can set to have the drive spin down and turn off if it's not in use. I know of the one in the computer power settings, but I seem to recall there being an individual setting for each drive. He thinks if we can find it, that might help eliminate things like bad sectors cause the drive wouldn't be in use; plus if its on all the time, it won't generate heat; plus not being on means the drive won't wear out as quick. Is there still a setting somewhere for that? Would having such a setting actually work in a server situation? I poked around a little, and found something called Write Cacheing, which sounds similar, but not exact. Would turning off Write Cacheing help with bad sectors? It says that having it enabled makes writing and moving files around easier, but putting it at risk for data corruption in case of a power failure. That brings up the point about the powersupply going bad/over drawing. Could that be why my drive is crashing, because write caching is turned on?

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Draco1962]

In Windows, it is all drives or nothing. The setting is in the Power Options via Control Panel. As for Write Caching, I would not change a thing for now. Give the new PSU a go and see if it resolves the issue.

[hansolo77]

Yeah I had feeling the spin down feature was taken out of the newer drives and replaced with the universal windows Power Options. I'll let the server do it's thing for now, and see how it goes. Anybody else; feel free to chime in.

[Draco1962]

Oh, get an UPS!

[hansolo77]

I was thinking about that when I was at the store yesterday. My only concern (besides cost) is the wattage they reportedly output. The biggest, heaviest, most expensive one the had was capable of only 500 watts for 75 minutes. Granted, I was running 500 watts previously, but it was having trouble. The more reasonably priced ones were much lower than that.. they couldn't possibly hold my system in check. But, then again, I've never bought an UPS, so I could just be showing off my ignrorance of not knowing anything.

Good news in the hard drive department though. I left the server running (not under heavy load access yet) overnight and all day today while I was at work. Came home and the server health icon is still green, which means it hasn't failed yet. I'm going to give it another full day of low usage before I start to hammer it again like I was. I need to get a spare drive and use it as my dedicated bittorrent drive, rather than just hosting the files as shared. I think that might be another part of the higher fail rates, since it's becoming so conjested and fragmented. I got PerfectDisk running on it, and it seems like the rest of my file system is well defragmented,... only the path of my torrents ever gets screwy.

[Draco1962]

You don't need one for 75 minutes really. The main reason to get one is allow you enough time to safely shut down in a timely manner. The main thing is to smooth out the power going to your sensitive electronics. Just think of it as your condom against the contagions of dirty electricity, the drip of power browns, and the fever induced by power spikes & surges!

[hansolo77]

Ok that went a bit dirty So should I consider the wattage, or is that not really all that important? Is there a way for the computer to detect when a power outage occurs and then automatically begin a safe shutdown in that event?

[Draco1962]

Depends on the UPS and software support for safe shutdown. Most connect via USB or serial connector to the PC and come with monitoring software that you can configure for your needs.

You should consider wattage to a degree. You can minimize the demands on the UPS by plugging monitors, external speakers, etc. into the appropriate outlets on the UPS so that they are not receiving battery power during an outage, yet still benefitting from the power cleaning capabilities. You will spend some money to make this happen but you won't be disappointed.

[hansolo77]

[knock on wood]

I'm on day 3 now, and the drive hasn't died yet. I don't know if my all-day overhaul of the drive solved it's problem, or if it was the new power supply. Probably both. But as it stands right now, the drive and server seem to be stable under typical low-load conditions. My only problem now is that I'm scared to try anything else with it. I've been using it as a fileserver, hosting all my media like movies, music, tv shows, pictures, etc. But as of yet I've told everybody that the server is offlimits, so that nobody tries to use the files. Once I tell everybody to start using it again, I'm afraid it'll crap out again. Oh well. Guess I'll just have to do it and see where it goes.

[rockyrocket]

Heres some light reading if you are really worried abbout your sys drive...

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/01/17/forum-spotlight-how-to-successfully-clone-and-upgrade-a-whs-system-drive/

Thought about upgrading mine a while back then read this and did not bother!.

At least if it does go your data drives are still readable in any pc.

Good luck, and yeah the prices of drives at the mo sucks.

[hansolo77]

I wonder if going through all those steps is really necessary, since you can now back up the system drive as a routine backup from within WHS. Of course I'm referring to WHS v1, don't know about the later version. That instruction post was made a year ago.

[rockyrocket]

Wow i did not know you can back up the system drive now, will have to have a look.

Yeah I am on ver 1 aswell, dont see the need to upgrade.

I only built the system to test whs and then kept it.

I keep thinking that I should change to unraid or such like as really i just use it as a nas, dont use it for back ups or the website stuff.

So if you do put a new sys drive in and use the rebuild option dont you keep your data but lose the back up database or am i mistaken?.

[hansolo77]

I don't know.. i've lost my backup database so often because of drive failures. From what I understand, you need an external drive or some other dedicated drive in the system for the system backup. You can schedule it to routine backup with the rest of your backups. In the event of a hard drive failure, you can restore the backup to a new drive. I suspect you wouldn't lose anything but whatever new tombstones you created since you last system drive backup. All the system drive does is store a tombstone file indicating which drive in your system has the file (and it's duplicate if appropriate) and the main OS. All your backups and files should be stored off the main drive. I'll have to look into it further though. Especially now that I'm so concerned over my drives dying. I have a custom built server, made out of a mid-tower case, with 10 drives. Offically 9 drives have died. Only my system drive remains. So I'm confident it's only a matter of time.

[rockyrocket]

Ahh right with you now, yep i did do that about a year ago.

plugged in a usb 1.5tb drive and it just asked what folders to back up/copy over, no mention was made of the sys drive but maybe a hidden file is on it too?.

Do you have duplication enabled? maybe if you add more healthy drives to the pool whs may then move data from a sick drive over?( you would hope).

That being said at some point you are going to have to shell out for some new drives, its just if you can wait it out untill prices drop.

I also agre with the other poster who pointed the finger at your psu, if you had not had the fire then i would be sure it was failing.

But factoring in said fire then i have no idea of its effect, but maybe for piece of mind some more shopping is needed.

Wasnt that what you president wanted?.

Tell you what, later today I will pull out that back up drive to see what hidden folder are on it.

[rockyrocket]

Ok so just had a look at my "server back up" and it only contains some dat files of whats on drive and then just the copied folders and no hidden system files, so its just data backed up.

Whs says its backed up but i guess it just cares about the folders.

Had a bit of a think about this and what i would do if it was my system, and I am not claiming to be any kind of expert at all but in your situation this is what i would do.

First i wouild make back ups of all my other good systems in the house and defo not to the whs, then you could lose the back up database with no real danger.

Then can you eliminate the fire damage?. ie do you have other working boxes that were in the same part of house?.

Then maybe I would take one of the drives that whs says was failing (and didnt you say you recovered one back to an error free state?) and use this to clone a good install from a good system onto it.

Then you could take the original drive out and run from the recovered drive to see if it produces more errors in a good system.

Then later if that drive seems fine take out all the other good drives from this good non whs box (to protect them) and put the suspect psu in to then see if this makes the drive play up, and if it does then we know the psu is bad.

Like I say i am not saying this is what you should do but its probably what I would.

I also know from my own experience that I get more psu fails than drives, not sure if thats true for everyone?.

Then again what if its your mobo?.

So what does everyone else think is this a worthwhile exercise?.

[rockyrocket]

Also on a brighter note so that it does not suck quite as bad to be you, you scruffy little nerf herder, I have a copy of whs for dummies you are welcome to have (not that i`m sayin your a dummie or nothin).

Pm me if you want it and i`ll throw it across the pond!.

[hansolo77]

Is it a PDF or an actual book? If it's a PDF I could probably download it. Book though, you'd have to ship it and it could get expensive. Not really worth the extra hassle I would think.

As for the whole drive thing. When the fire happened, all I could do was grab up everything, and shove it in one of those storage units for about 4 months. After that, when they started rebuilding the condo, I took the server and media center computers out to see if they still worked. They didn't. The problem with the media center was simple, the cable from the PSU to the motherboard some how got unplugged during the jostling. So that was an easy fix. The server though, I had to completely replace the motherboard. It was on during the fire, and the water from the trucks blew out the circuits. There was also visible rust on the motherboard. So it was no surprise that it wouldn't work. The case was dirty, but easily cleaned. I pulled everything out to just metal and screws and power washed the case. There's still some stains from the foam the firefighters used that I can't get clean. Then I bought my new motherboard. It needed a new processor, but I got a combo deal on board and chip so it didn't cost a whole lot. Then I bought the memory. So, needless to say, all the key components were brand new post-fire. The power supply 'worked' and didn't appear damaged. As is true with the hard drives. They powered up, and could read/write data. Everything still worked. Then slowly over the last year and half, one by one the drives failed. They all exhibited the same symptoms of just WHS reporting they failed, even though I could access them fine. They wouldn't pass any tests though, but after a full sector wipe they would work again for a few days before dying again. Giving up hope on repair, I've just been buying up new drives to replace them. An added bonus to this though is more space. They were all 500gb drives, and I've bought 1tb drives to replace them. My concern now happened because I was getting the exact same symptoms my old pre-fire drives were getting, only on the newest drive I just bought in September! So that made me change gears and think something else was going on; meaning...the power supply. It was the only thing remaining besides the case that was original from pre-fire. I've repaired the new drive, and replaced the power supply with a larger one. So far it seems to be working like it should. I told Dad yesterday to begin 'load-testing' it by watching some tv shows/movies I've got on the fileshare. He didn't do it today, but hopefully everything will be working again.

I will most definately be buying some kind of external drive for system drive backups. I would have liked to upgrade to the latest version of WHS, and build the system OS onto a SSD drive, but have been reading a lot of bad stuff about it. For one, you can't just UPGRADE. You need to install into a clean system so it can build the new fileshare structure. That means I would lose my 8tb or so of stuff I've got saved on it. Also, they removed the drive extender function, which allowed you to just install any old drive you want and have it add to the available file space. Now you have to use 3rd party software to get a close-to similar function. So for right now, I'm happy with good 'ol version 1 WHS.

[rockyrocket]

Well hopefully the psu will be the cure.

Yep I was in the same boat about upgrading I have about 4tb of actual data but mirrored with dupe on so to upgrade i would of needed another 4 tb ,or to just see if whs could free them up if i deleted any back ups and dupe files. .

1.5 tb drives were about £45 and i looked and nearly bought some just before flood.

The new vail build of whs is so cheap ms is almost giving it away but as you said it has no drive extender,so is it worth it?.

seems like ms has lost interest in home servers but the small business products do seem quite simular, i just have this feeling that I sould scrap it and use unraid or amahi.

If you did use an external drive as a back up atleast then you could stash it at someone elses house.

On the book front its a good old paperback but if you want it its yours dont worry about shipping.

As for ssd I am about to build a starwars cab next week and am seriously considering a 30gb ssd for a 2game mame cab what with todays pricing!.

Anyway hope this all makes sence as i now have a good bottle of red in me!.

[hansolo77]

I've never drank in my life. Nobody believes me!

I would do something like amahi/unraid if I knew anything at all about Linux. I'd really like to, but I hate the idea of not having a test system to mess around with before I just go right in and do it. With WHS, it's a tried and true familiar platform that I can actually do want I want with, and know for the most part how to fix it without looking like a complete idiot. Thats also why I never bought a Mac. I'm too used to using Windows, a whole new OS would just scare me. I got an iPod, and that was my first Apple Experience. My overal impression is "meh". Granted, I'll never buy a Windows Phone or some kind of mobile Microsoft device.

[rockyrocket]

Stick with what you like i say!.

The only apple product I own is a copy of lion, runs fine on my hack but yeah like you I dont feel the apple love.

Think its worh you having a play with some linux though even if its just as a vm, you may like it.

Anyway let us know how the patient gets on.

[hansolo77]

She's still kicking. Dad tried to watch a couple of movies today, but wasn't able to.. His bluray player keeps reporting things are invalid or corrupted. They're not, of course, but his player can't read them. It's a mystery to solve in the future. I thought that's what transcoding does, by turning it into a compatible format. Oh well. I'm off the next 2 days, so I'm gonna try and do some moderate file share hammering on it to make sure it can handle the load. If it craps out, be assured I'll let ya'll know.

[rockyrocket]

Fingers crossed.